Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

turkeyblocks.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 476 posts

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#151

Post by kyriakos »

agumonkey wrote: post #98
sorenjan wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of people care, but what are we supposed to do about it? Here in Europe Erdogan makes the headlines from time to time, right before the referendum he made several speeches where he called the politicians of multiple countries "descendants of nazis" and similar. Everybody knows that he cares more about suppressing the Kurds than ISIS. He holds Europe hostage by threatening to release large amounts of refugees i…

I think we should stop communicating from the top. Many problems right now are because heads of state, not necessarily people. Erdogan, Putin ... We should try to get real people to talk, about who they are, what they want (peace ? surely .. war ? not so sure). So peoples in every nation start to avoid the national/patriot filter when thinking and voting.

Erdogan was democratically elected. He's not a dictator (even if he does act as one at this point) and judging from the referendum results, at least half of Turks seem to like his direction. It's easy to say those voters are uneducated or misguided but the fact is that this is how democracy works. Where I am going with this is that we should not blame just the leader but also the people who put him there.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#152

Post by [deleted] »

vixen99 wrote: post #148
jstanley wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All borders should be abolished. No human being has the right to tell any other human being where he can or can't go (with the exception of trespassing on private property, of course).

So you want to abolish the freedom for a group of people to decide how many and what kind of people should be able to take up permanent residence within their community? Good luck with that one. Is there a country anywhere that does that? I wonder that you stop at the family level! I suppose you do. If so, why?

[deleted]

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#153

Post by mythrwy »

mschuster91 wrote: post #115
thinknot wrote: post #49

>People in the West need to wake up and do their due diligence on Erdogan's regime. There's some seriously scary stuff happening because of this guy. Honest question, why should the west care about every single problem that happens anywhere in the world? Why should we spend billions in wars, shed lots of our own blood, etc? Haven't we had enough of that?

> Honest question, why should the west care about every single problem that happens anywhere in the world? Why should we spend billions in wars, shed lots of our own blood, etc? Haven't we had enough of that? Because that exactly same attitude, especially by the UK and US led to the rise of Hitler and eventually the Holocaust. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat its mistakes.

"Because Hitler" can become the excuse for all kinds of nonsense though.

Witness the Iraq war.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#154

Post by ue_ »

cryptarch wrote: post #137
ue_ wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>(with the exception of trespassing on private property, of course). This ought to be removed too, along with the whole concept of property.

Be the change you want to see! Go ahead and abolish all your own property, you're free to do so. Or was it more about you wanting to be entitled to product of your fellow man's labor?

>Go ahead and abolish all your own property, you're free to do so.

I do not own any private property.

>Or was it more about you wanting to be entitled to product of your fellow man's labor?

No; in fact, the exact opposite. It is about the worker owning the product of his own labour, rather than having it appropriated when production has finished. To each according to his labour.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#155

Post by vidarh »

ue_ wrote: post #121
jstanley wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All borders should be abolished. No human being has the right to tell any other human being where he can or can't go (with the exception of trespassing on private property, of course).

>(with the exception of trespassing on private property, of course). This ought to be removed too, along with the whole concept of property.

I regularly point people to this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam

Especially in the Nordic countries. Having grown up in Norway, the idea of people e.g. fencing in fields or forests and keeping people off their land seems ludicrous and to an extent offensive. It's a massive restriction of liberty of the many for the benefit of the few.

(it's worth noting that the freedom to roam is generally restricted to non-urban areas, so e.g. not gardens in residential areas and the like)

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#156

Post by mkempe »

duncanawoods wrote: post #131
mkempe wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany, 1945

It required killing 7 million Germans, 10% of the population. I guess if you kill enough people, that does reduce certain types of chaos... but a world war is basically peak chaos.

Did these Germans die because Hitler was in power, or because he was removed from power?

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#157

Post by ivanbakel »

madeofpalk wrote: post #149
beloch wrote: post #31

I'm a canuck who has worked with Turks and has visited Turkey. They're a wonderful people from a beautiful country with a real problem of a person in power. Turkey is almost entirely Muslim, yet they produce alcohol and tolerate its consumption within their borders, even by their own people. Let that fact sink in for a moment. Erdogan is subverting the premier secular democracy of the Islamic world, but nobody seems…

> Turkey is almost entirely Muslim, yet they produce alcohol and tolerate its consumption within their borders, even by their own people. Let that fact sink in for a moment. Call me naive, but is this actually a problem? I'm fairly secular and don't know much about how 'Muslim states' operate, but if they're producing alcohol, for it's population who drinks and and doesn't care, what is the actual problem here? Shoul…

The point is that there's no problem at all. The standard for many Islamic countries to introduce parts of Islamic law as state law, such as the forbidding of alcohol or the veiling of women. By contrast, Turkey is much more secular in its government.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#158

Post by nebabyte »

louithethrid wrote: post #142
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you're on to something, and there is a technical solution here. (Mainly I believe that because it's something I've been saying for years ) Here in the states, the NSA was allowed to view data on telephone calls 3 or 4 levels out from a terrorist. So, for instance, if a terrorist called A, and A called B, and B called C, and so on? The NSA could track C or D. The argument against that is that it would cover…

You are right there- but its not just a math problem. Once people would use it, the usual suspects would show up and start to warp this distributed web. Despots would add sinks that suck in all messages, by pretending to be a known plankton/connection. Also assume that traditional isps would first try to subvert it and then try to replace it by providing a similar walled in service - warning from the dangerous open s…

> Finally i think the problem remains, that any sufficiently enough supressing regime, would force its citizens to uninstall such software.

Not force to uninstall - rather regulate, requiring licensure for operation; giving people a reason to be complacent. (Likely in the name of counterterrorism/child safety/etc)

Still, you have a decent grasp of the situation, which is much appreciated. Anyone who still thinks interpolitical issues can be swept away by some "just invent X" has either not lived long enough to know better or are doomed to the delusion that "it's the next one" until they die.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#159

Post by vidarh »

nebabyte wrote: post #113
forvelin wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a 49% in Turkey, and then there is 51%. 51 won and this happened.

We need to introduce some sort of minority action in democracy. The smaller pluralities should not be powerless against the majority... The problem there I suppose would be neutral arbitration. sigh

Most countries tend to have or quickly get rules to make constitutional changes hard to pass. E.g. requiring 2/3 majority or even multiple votes across multiple parliaments, or the like. Couple that with constitutions that limit the governments power, and you get some reasonable degree of protection of minorities.

The ability to enact drastic change with a minimal majority like in Turkey (or the UK...) is terribly dangerous.

Re: Wikipedia blocked in Turkey

#160

Post by czep »

cryptarch wrote: post #137
ue_ wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>(with the exception of trespassing on private property, of course). This ought to be removed too, along with the whole concept of property.

Be the change you want to see! Go ahead and abolish all your own property, you're free to do so. Or was it more about you wanting to be entitled to product of your fellow man's labor?

It's more like not wanting rent-seekers, whose property was given to them at birth, to be entitled to other people's labor. All property is theft, because in the grand scheme of things, we are all renters. We are here on borrowed time, why do we make a system in which some have more rights than others?
Post reply on HN