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Bose Headphones Spy on Users, Lawsuit Says

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Re: Bose Headphones Spy on Users, Lawsuit Says

#152
For those that missed it, a representative from one of the other companies named in the suit helpfully dropped in to provide additional context on their company's part in this. It even had a super positive "happy to answer ... questions" attitude. It was deleted in a few minutes as they realized how poorly that was going to turn out.

The reaction wasn't unexpected. Especially since, while they were supposedly not directly purchasing or selling the data, they did help collect the data that Bose allowed themselves to buy or sell. And the TOS allows for third-party collection and use of data with little restriction.

I did grab a snapshot and the text, but it's quite full of personally identifying information - name, position and company, as well as links to their dropbox account. I think the information is important, but I'll try to leave out those details. Not that it would stop anyone determined to dig through case details.

In any case, maybe this will help people to discuss the points they were making and share their attitudes about them without receiving a massive Twitter storm.

> 1. The suit implies that [Company x] buys the data from Bose for marketing, advertising, targeting or profiling. We don’t do that. We help Bose collect event tracking data (like you send to Google Analytics) and send that data to their product analytics tools (like Mixpanel, Amplitude, Crashlytics, Crittercism, AWS Redshift, etc.) Analytics tools like this are used to create reports to understand how a product is being used or how a product is performing.

> 2. The suit claims that the event tracking was done unexpectedly and in secret, but that’s not true. We require that our customers (like Bose) get appropriate customer consent, not collect any data in violation of the law, and not pass segment any sensitive customer information as defined in applicable laws. To the best of our knowledge, Bose complies with all of that. On the main screen of the app, there’s a link to “Privacy Policy” front and center

To be clear, no one thinks that you didn't do your job from the beginning in attempting to cover your legal bases. We're aware that analytics is a valid business. And that it has some valid use cases. But analytics is also an industry that gets abused frequently and doesn't self-regulate.

In this particular case, people are upset because the hardware is not completely functional without the app - so people can't just not use it or "opt out" without losing part of what they just paid a fair amount of money for. No one would use the app except for that functionality, so collecting information on "app use" when the use of the app is a manufactured scenario seems quite unfair for a high-end product.

When collecting data in these scenarios, you need to be explicit about what you're collecting and not deviate from it. Data overreach and intentionally vague language are both received poorly. It could be that they're only collecting audio metrics. But their TOS would also allow them to collect information on every running app at any time (ostensibly it could effect quality) or on phone contacts (like if you made a call using the hardware), device location, texts, calls, and could conceivably transmit even more sensitive information.

All it takes is one wide tie with a bright idea to slip that "feature" in. Furthermore, there's nothing stopping Bose from changing their TOS at a later point. So these "protections" don't really protect the consumer.

Bose chose language that gave them too much potential freedom, and they're paying for that. You just did your job, yes, but honestly the job probably wasn't required for this particular product.

Re: Bose Headphones Spy on Users, Lawsuit Says

#153
post #47

This link has an autoplay video with sound. Can we get some kind of title warning on these, like the [pdf] or [1927] warnings? I really don't want to click on these without being prepared. Lacking a better alternative, for now, I'm just flagging it.

"This link has an autoplay video with sound." Are we really getting this finicky now? Like, I'm usually on the more compassionate side of listening to people's concerns, but being offended by a video playing is just... sissified to the max.

Just like [year] warnings are for people offended by dates! Damn sissies, right?

Re: Bose Headphones Spy on Users, Lawsuit Says

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Got it. I thought it was routine telemetries data from other comments.

Wouldn't it be a good idea to actually read the article before commenting on it?

Who needs relevant facts when it would just distract from this perfectly good preconceived opinion I have right here?

Re: Bose Headphones Spy on Users, Lawsuit Says

#155
post #47

This link has an autoplay video with sound. Can we get some kind of title warning on these, like the [pdf] or [1927] warnings? I really don't want to click on these without being prepared. Lacking a better alternative, for now, I'm just flagging it.

"This link has an autoplay video with sound." Are we really getting this finicky now? Like, I'm usually on the more compassionate side of listening to people's concerns, but being offended by a video playing is just... sissified to the max.

I don't read your parent as being offended. I'm annoyed by autoplay videos myself. I don't think a tag is necessary, but I understand where they're coming from. Please be a little more charitable in reading others comments. No matter how they post, there's never a reason to make it worse.

Re: Bose Headphones Spy on Users, Lawsuit Says

#156

(Created an account to post this) I downloaded the app on android and listened to a few songs on Spotify to find out what information was being sent. While the app is running, the app sends a HTTP (edit: HTTPS) request every time the track information changes or the volume changes. When the track information changes it sends the artist, album and song name. When you change the volume it sends the new volume level. Ev…

I'd be really curious to see how this data is actually used on their end. I got my QC35s a few months ago and have been loving them, but was super disappointed when I read the article. I'll probably end up uninstalling the app for the time being, at least until it's resolved.

On another note, I wonder if any other wireless audio manufacturers are doing similar things.

Re: Bose Headphones Spy on Users, Lawsuit Says

#157
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...Whereas underhandedly surveilling people who are naive enough to buy a product from you and then profiting from the fruits of one's panty-sniffing is a brilliant one?

That completely depends upon the fine that is imposed, if any at all..

Not completely. I suspect the value Bose attaches to their brand name exceeds zero.

Re: Bose Headphones Spy on Users, Lawsuit Says

#158
post #8

What I think would be interesting is: what if a company like this made an app like this, but then clearly stated to users that it'd be collecting data on them and sending it to marketers? They could even pitch it as helping to keep prices "low". How much would this hurt sales? Would it even hurt sales at all? Given the proliferation of "smart TVs" and various IoT devices, I'm extremely skeptical that a company would…

> They could even pitch it as helping to keep prices "low".

Considering that code has creation and maintenance costs, I doubt this would ever actually reduce the price. They would just inflate the final price to cover the cost. And if it collects enough data to actually make money, the price reduction would probably not significant enough to match perpetual data theft. Not to say that some people wouldn't go for it. It's amazing the lengths people will go to for free or cheap products.

But there's still the many liabilities of collecting, transferring and securing sensitive data. People who know the risks and hassles involved with identity theft would be very selective about these services.

Re: Bose Headphones Spy on Users, Lawsuit Says

#159

(Created an account to post this) I downloaded the app on android and listened to a few songs on Spotify to find out what information was being sent. While the app is running, the app sends a HTTP (edit: HTTPS) request every time the track information changes or the volume changes. When the track information changes it sends the artist, album and song name. When you change the volume it sends the new volume level. Ev…

Did you packet sniff what is being sent out? Or do you have some intermediary running on the device itself?

Just curious if it was difficult to do. If more people knew how to, maybe this sort of activity wouldn't sneakily happen as often.

Re: Bose Headphones Spy on Users, Lawsuit Says

#160

(Created an account to post this) I downloaded the app on android and listened to a few songs on Spotify to find out what information was being sent. While the app is running, the app sends a HTTP (edit: HTTPS) request every time the track information changes or the volume changes. When the track information changes it sends the artist, album and song name. When you change the volume it sends the new volume level. Ev…

I'd be really curious to see how this data is actually used on their end. I got my QC35s a few months ago and have been loving them, but was super disappointed when I read the article. I'll probably end up uninstalling the app for the time being, at least until it's resolved. On another note, I wonder if any other wireless audio manufacturers are doing similar things.

I concur. Have and love QC35 (got them on right now). I only downloaded the app to test some settings change, I think. It's not particularly useful for anything else. Since I don't have to use it to pair, I'm not sure how I'd know when it was "running" or not, short of manually killing it in the iOS task launcher/killer thing. Time to just uninstall.
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