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Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

economist.com

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Re: Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

#151

Post by maccard »

username223 wrote: post #37
lend000 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a strangely bitter way of looking at things. Ride sharing companies, including Uber, have brought tremendous benefits to society, and drunk driving prevention is probably at the top of the list. Uber has made the largest difference of all these companies because it has been the most aggressive in disrupting rent-seekers like taxi companies. The drivers and the general willingness of people to embrace the gig e…

Perhaps, but don't call it "sharing," because sharing is reciprocal. If it were actually sharing, you would be driving for Uber as much as the people who chauffeur you around. Call them what they are: unlicensed taxis. Also, "the general willingness of people to embrace the gig economy" is just another way of saying "many people are desperate enough to do sub-minimum-wage piecework."

They're not always unlicensed. In the U.K. all Ubers are licensed private hire vehicles.

Re: Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

#152

Post by pluma »

m-j-fox wrote: post #112
metafunctor wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite as taboo as many other countries [1], unfortunately. You give two excuses to drink and drive. Both are indefensible. The first excuse is "need a car to get around, have car". I live in a sparsely populated area as well, and everyone uses a car to get around. When we go out drinking, we plan ahead. The most common options are designated drivers, taxis, sleeping over, walking, or cycling. The second excuse is…

Walking and cycling are going to get you killed at the same rate if not higher as driving. I guess you're not as likely to kill someone else.

I think that's also something that's different in the US: individualism.

I wouldn't normally call e.g. Germany a "collectivist" society but in comparison to the attitudes I frequently hear about from Americans (especially in politics) Germans apparently genuinely care more about their fellow citizens.

Not being as likely to kill someone else is the entire point. Heck, drunk cycling is only slightly better than drunk driving because you're less likely to run someone over (but might still cause an accident when a driver has to do something dangerous to avoid you).

Re: Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

#153

Post by eddieh »

sergers wrote: post #23
kalleboo wrote: post #5

Or conversely, the taxi medallion system is likely responsible for 24-35% of drunk driving incidents...

In Vancouver, If going out downtown, it's a 80$ cab ride each way atleast. Transit would take atleast an hour but good luck taking it back at 2am when service is very limited. I could drive after drinking and spend 30-40 minutes. There is no ride sharing allowed here yet. I usually don't go out if I don't have a designated driver as it's just not affordable or takes too long. Many friends, and I admit myself when you…

I agree Vancouver needs ride sharing! Although when I was there it didn't seem any more expensive for cabs than Seattle. From the downtown Hyatt to Kingsway & Commercial Dr was about $20 CAD. How far out do you live?

Re: Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

#154

Post by developer2 »

posguy wrote: post #141
developer2 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that you are not paying for "gas, wear and tear & depreciation" when you call a taxi. You're not even paying for the human driver. You are paying for the monopoly. Even if calling a driverless car cost more for remote areas, it would (or at least could ) still cost a fraction of the cost of a taxi. $30 instead of $120 for a long distance drive is totally reasonable.

$30 for a 8 mile trip when your making $7hr is really hard on the budget. It might be way cheaper, but it is still unfordable for the median person in a rural area.

You may have missed it, but my grandparent's comment - and my reply - were regarding driverless cars. There is no driver making $7/hour in an autonomous driverless car. (Off-topic aside: no taxi driver makes $7/hour). There's a reason an easy trip costs $50-80 in a taxi, and it has nothing to do with human labor or maintenance of the car. A driverless vehicle will not have to make $100+/hour to make up for maintenance costs.

Nor do driverless cars have to make up for "idle time". The only legitimate counter argument as to why a taxi should earn as much as they do is that they sit around not making any money for 10-60 minutes at a time. However, that goes away with driverless cars, and any excuse to charge exorbitant prices the way taxis do completely vanishes.

Re: Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

#155

Post by pluma »

sAbakumoff wrote: post #119
jhpaul wrote: post #65

Based on personal experiences this isn't surprising. When I was in college in a small town in the late 00's, many friends and acquaintances would drive across town after heavy drinking. 10-15 minutes, straight roads, little traffic. Other than not going out, or not getting home, you didn't have many options. It was a hour long walk or a $20-40 cab ride, if you could get one. I was recently back in town for a wedding…

During my first visit to the USA, back in 2007, I was shocked at casual drinking and driving habits of my co-workers. They were fine with having 5-6 bottles of beer and a couple of shots and then drop me in the hotel before driving home. Fortunately they don't have to do that anymore.

I think this might be related to another complaint you often hear about: the drinking culture in general.

Where I live in Europe it's normal to have designated drivers at parties and it's socially unacceptable to pressure them into drinking. If someone offers you a drink, "I'm driving" is a no-questions-asked way to turn it down (same goes for "I'm pregnant" or "I'm a recovering alcoholic").

That doesn't seem to be the case in much of the US. But it's one of those things that are hard to judge from across the pond.

Re: Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

#156

Post by pluma »

zer0tonin wrote: post #136
xxs wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in some place drunk riding a bike might have similar repercussions [incl. criminal charges above certain levels].

It's harder to kill someone on a bike tho.

Directly? Yes. Indirectly? No.

You're still posing a traffic hazard.

Re: Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

#157

Post by mschuster91 »

lsc wrote: post #121
m-j-fox wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walking and cycling are going to get you killed at the same rate if not higher as driving. I guess you're not as likely to kill someone else.

Yup. I think that as a culture, we need to think more about the risks we take with other people's lives. I think this is best demonstrated by the minimum liability insurance required to operate a car. In California, right now, you can drive a car with only $35K in liability insurance... which is crazy. Sure, that will cover most cars, but it won't even cover a moderate injury. Very few people have the assets required…

> In California, right now, you can drive a car with only $35K in liability insurance... which is crazy. Sure, that will cover most cars, but it won't even cover a moderate injury. Very few people have the assets required to pay for a serious injury, and therefore, the victim is usually under-compensated.

In Germany, there are regulations for this. The mandatory insurance has a minimum coverage of 7.5M € for injuries, 1.12M € for property damages and 50 k€ for other accident related costs. And yet our car insurances are affordable AND the insurers make really nice profits.

Re: Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

#158

Post by pluma »

visakanv wrote: post #86

A separate discussion that I'd like to have is – why do people drink so much, to the point of drunkenness? Why is this so common? Has this always been the case? Will this change?

Apart from general questions about social norms, the basic problem with overdrinking is that alcohol generally boasts your confidence.

Most people are already really bad judges of how much they can drink before reaching various stages of intoxication while they are sober; it only gets worse when they're drinking. This is further complicated when mixing drinks with different alcohol contents.

So while sober you might guesstimate that you'll be "pleasantly buzzed" after about three drinks. Then you have one or two drinks and your self-reflection skills get worse and you become convinced four or five is fine too and six is really only just a bit more than three, so that'll be fine too.

It's generally an aspect of maturity to learn not to trust "drunk you" when asking yourself how much you should drink but humans are humans, so even adults screw up a lot.

Re: Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

#159

Post by mschuster91 »

ajmurmann wrote: post #91
mikekchar wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish the US and Canada would relax zoning restrictions. I've spent the last decade or so in Japan and the UK and it's just so much better. Admittedly, when you are young and going out clubbing then you want access to the big city. But for quieter/older people, just having access to a decent restaurant or pub within walking distance of your house is amazing. These days my wife and I might go out to the big city mayb…

The zoning restrictions are one of the most startling things to be about the US. Especially since the US is in general very pro market but in this case is incredibly anti market. The major my suburb recently sent out a survey asking people what kind of building projects people would like to see. The granularity of what was being asked for was shocking. It should not be the government's task to decide if we need to bu…

I don't see zoning as black-and-white as you do. We have pretty strict zoning requirements in most of Germany too... with some exceptions of course, and you can immediately see that the quality of life in lesser regulated areas goes downhill.

The point is that you have to apply common sense to zoning, which given the countless comments about US zoning seems to be the difference.

Re: Ride-hailing apps may help to curb drunk driving

#160

Post by pluma »

devdoomari wrote: post #97

...but what about cars left on the parking lot by the drunk ppl? a lot of ppl might choose to drink&drive because they have to go back & get their cars again... In South Korea they have 'substitute driver service' that drives customer's car (obviously, with customer in it) back to the customer's home. I'm sure this can be done logistically (have a large bus carry around drivers, etc.)

> ...but what about cars left on the parking lot by the drunk ppl?

1. This may sound obvious but maybe don't drive yourself if you're not going to be able to drive back. Ask a friend to take you or plan to pay for both ways.

2. Plan for the extra time the following day to pick your car up where you left it.

3. Drive with someone who can drive the car (and you) back.

I'm surprised you think this is a difficult problem. People have been doing these things for decades.

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