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ZeroNet – Uncensorable websites using Bitcoin crypto and BitTorrent network

zeronet.io

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Re: ZeroNet – Uncensorable websites using Bitcoin crypto and BitTorrent network

#151

Post by doublec »

djsumdog wrote: post #95
emucontusionswe wrote: post #34

I would recommend use of Freenet over ZeroNet. More or less the same concept/functionality however with 15 years more experience. Freenet: https://freenetproject.org/

They have different goals. FreeNet is about total anonymity. In the FreeNet world, everyone helps server small pieces of all the data, yet no one person knows what data is on the portion of their local drives. Things like Javascript are also disabled on FreeNet. ZeroNet uses the torrent protocol and serves up the content you've chosen to view. You know what you're serving.

JavaScript is disabled through the Freenet proxy but it's possible to use the Freenet API to access the raw data and have a proxy that doesn't disable JavaScript. It would be possible to do something very ZeroNet like but with Freenet as the backend.

ZeroNet doesn't really use the torrent protocol. It has its own file sharing service that it runs to receive requests from other users for files. It uses the torrent trackers to map site addresses to IP or onion address.

You know what you're serving initially but the site author can add any files they choose and you'll start serving them if you've visited the site and are seeding it. You have no control over malicious sites that decide to store arbitrary data.

Re: ZeroNet – Uncensorable websites using Bitcoin crypto and BitTorrent network

#152

Post by doublec »

0xcde4c3db wrote: post #60

> Anonymity: Full Tor network support with .onion hidden services instead of ipv4 addresses How does this track with the Tor Project's advice to avoid using BitTorrent over Tor [1]? I can imagine that a savvy project is developed with awareness of what the problems are and works around them, but I don't see it addressed. [1] https://blog.torproject.org/blog/bittorrent-over-tor-isnt-go...

ZeroNet doesn't use the torrent protocol for distributing files. It uses its own file service that is exposed via a port to receive file requests and send files. It uses torrent trackers for mapping ZeroNet site addresses to IP or Onion addresses.

Re: ZeroNet – Uncensorable websites using Bitcoin crypto and BitTorrent network

#153

Post by doublec »

shakna wrote: post #141
mirimir wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but you can deal with that, if you know what you're doing. If you use Whonix, or roll your own Tor gateway, leaks around Tor aren't an issue. UDP is the hardest thing to deal with. I mean, with proper Tor/userland isolation, leaks don't happen. So all UDP just gets dropped. If you want UDP, you need to use OnionCat or tunnel a VPN through Tor.

> Yeah, but you can deal with that, if you know what you're doing. I think it's fairly clear at this point that ZeroNet isn't testing to make sure that this is the case. Their TorManager [0] is basically a wrapper around the tor executable, and runs a fairly vanilla config. So yes, leaks or attacks via bittorrent are actually an issue here. [0] https://github.com/HelloZeroNet/ZeroNet/blob/master/src/Tor/...

ZeroNet doesn't use the torrent protocol for distributing file. It uses its own TCP service for that so avoids the issues of tunnelling UDP over TCP. Its use of "bittorrent" technology is limited to the protocol for mapping ZeroNet site addresses to IP/Onion addresses.

Re: ZeroNet – Uncensorable websites using Bitcoin crypto and BitTorrent network

#154

Post by chobytes »

averagewall wrote: post #145
mee_too wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious: are the gay people insane as well?

I think he was using the word "sane" loosely to mean common people, not a niche group. I agree though that it's hypocritical to label some sexualities as a disease or insanity but object to doing the same for other minority ones.

are you actually trying to say that being a pedophile is a legitimate sexuality?

or even that it's anything like being gay?

Re: ZeroNet – Uncensorable websites using Bitcoin crypto and BitTorrent network

#155

Post by chobytes »

mee_too wrote: post #136
fiatjaf wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freenet is a great idea with 15 years of failure to get traction with sane (by which I mean non-paedophile) people. Also, it's written in Java.

Just curious: are the gay people insane as well?

just curious: are you comparing being gay with being a fucking pedo?

Re: ZeroNet – Uncensorable websites using Bitcoin crypto and BitTorrent network

#156

Post by chobytes »

loup-vaillant wrote: post #135
fiatjaf wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freenet is a great idea with 15 years of failure to get traction with sane (by which I mean non-paedophile) people. Also, it's written in Java.

> Also, it's written in Java. (Not sure if that's a praise or a criticism.) As much as I dislike Java (ML outclasses it as a language), that's probably much better than the obvious alternatives (C and C++): there aren't nearly as many undefined behaviours, and that eliminates a whole class of potential security vulnerabilities. If it were written now , Rust could be a viable alternative: just as safe, potentially fas…

>ML outclasses it you people are why nobody will take haskell or ocaml seriously. as a developer who works primarily with haskell: it is not a panacea, stop being so snobbish

Re: ZeroNet – Uncensorable websites using Bitcoin crypto and BitTorrent network

#157

Post by mirimir »

doublec wrote: post #153
shakna wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah, but you can deal with that, if you know what you're doing. I think it's fairly clear at this point that ZeroNet isn't testing to make sure that this is the case. Their TorManager [0] is basically a wrapper around the tor executable, and runs a fairly vanilla config. So yes, leaks or attacks via bittorrent are actually an issue here. [0] https://github.com/HelloZeroNet/ZeroNet/blob/master/src/Tor/...

ZeroNet doesn't use the torrent protocol for distributing file. It uses its own TCP service for that so avoids the issues of tunnelling UDP over TCP. Its use of "bittorrent" technology is limited to the protocol for mapping ZeroNet site addresses to IP/Onion addresses.

So will ZeroNet map addresses to immanent Tor onion addresses, which are much longer? That change will screw OnionCat, sadly enough.

Also, I wonder if MPTCP would play nice with ZeroNet. MPTCP works very well With OnionCat. I could create TCP streams with hundreds of subflows over all possible combinations of multiple OnionCat addresses.

https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmUDV2KHrAgs84oUc7z9zQmZ3whx1NB6YDPv8ZR...

https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmSp8p6d3Gxxq1mCVG85jFHMax8pSBzdAyBL2jZ...

Re: ZeroNet – Uncensorable websites using Bitcoin crypto and BitTorrent network

#159

Post by runeks »

fiatjaf wrote: post #117
shakna wrote: post #23

Has the code quality improved since I was told to screw off for bringing up security? * 2 years out of date gevent-websocket * Year old Python-RSA, which included some worrying security bugs in that time. [0](Vulnerable to side-channel attacks on decryption and signing.) * PyElliptic is both out of date, and actually an unmaintained library. But it's okay, it's just the OpenSSL library! * 2 years out of date Pybitcoi…

Well, it is better to concentrate on getting users in than to solve some small quirks. Nobody is going to attack ZeroNet if it doesn't have users anyway.

Nobody is going to use ZeroNet in the first place if it's not secure. "Users before security" makes no sense at all if the product you're selling is security.

Re: ZeroNet – Uncensorable websites using Bitcoin crypto and BitTorrent network

#160

Post by dandelion_lover »

antocv wrote: post #128
fiatjaf wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need multiple internets, a big confusion, governments can't handle confusion, but if everything is standardized over Facebook and WhatsApp it's easy for them.

They can. Well. Look, even if you have multiple internets, decentralized everything, distributed all systems, no more Google no more Facebook. What does the communication patterns in such a system look like? Do you use the system after work before going to sleep? Your and everyone else usage patterns, traffic can be analyzed. The endpoints, many of them would be honeypots run by Spooks, revealing even more what you a…

I believe i2p solves most of issues you mentioned with galic routing. Though at a cost of speed of course.
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