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Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

theatlantic.com

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Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#151

Post by bingomad123 »

When you define anyone who does not agree with you as a Troll that phrase kind of gets meaningless.

I meet regularly main stream journalists who complain about Trolls winning on internet but talking longer makes me realize that these people actually hate the fact that their "card carrying journalism" is actually made totally worthless by ordinary individuals on street writing a blog from their bedroom.

I am from India and I know specific examples of media personalities trying to shut down totally legitimate blogs by calling them "trolls". Example: http://mediacrooks.com/ Bunch of them even came to silicon valley and tried to lobby with social media giants that their opinion must get more visibility than other internet user.

Personally I dont think bad guys are winning, I think Internet has truly helped marginalized people express themselves without being judgemental about their opinions and without giving more importance to any authority.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#152

Post by freeflight »

pdeuchler wrote: post #137

The internet is as it always was, the only difference is more people, and more importantly more people without technological prowess and forum/bbs/irc experience, are accessing it and moving increasingly larger chunks of their life to the internet. As someone who fell in love with the internet when I was young because nobody knew I was young , it constantly surprises me when people put intimate details online and the…

>The internet doesn't magically make social, political, religious, and ideological rifts magically disappear, it just seemed like it did because nobody could associate users with their backgrounds.

But one could argue that our modern "Social Media Internet" gives exactly that impression. Whether it's Google, Facebook, Twitter or whatnot: People are being funneled into "ideological bubbles" based on their preferences and being surrounded just by people who share their views.

Thus many people assume they are on the "right side" because everybody in their Internet-social circles thinks exactly like them. That's why many people act so surprised/outraged if they happen to come across somebody from another "social media echo chamber" with completely opposing views.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#153

Post by michaelchisari »

ElatedOwl wrote: post #82
michaelchisari wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess where we're in disagreement, though, and this is something that was in discussion at the senate hearings in terms of "unwitting agents" or put less delicately, "useful idiots" that will follow along with dangerous patterns that might have their source in extremely negative astroturfing/forum-sliding/shilling, but which take on a life of their own. We have clear evidence that disinformation campaigns and activ…

>I guess where we're in disagreement, though, [...] "useful idiots" that will follow along with dangerous patterns that might have their source in extremely negative astroturfing/forum-sliding/shilling, but which take on a life of their own. I'm not sure where the disagreement is; gaining sincere support is the whole point. Shills spread plenty of false anti-bernie things.

I think you should take a second look at what I said. Yes, there were anti-Bernie things, and I say this as someone whose politics are much closer to Bernie's than they will ever be to Hillary's.

But the nature of what Putin is doing is radically different, for the reasons I outlined. Misrepresenting an essay that Bernie wrote 50 years ago, for instance, is dirty politics for sure, but I don't put it on the same level as spreading a fake story about Muslim immigrants or black people, especially in a country like ours that has a very dangerous history of racial populism.

Add to this that those whipping up these deep social divisions aren't even American, and you have yourself a problem with a much greater significance than playing dirty in a primary battle.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#154

Post by sp332 »

Mendenhall wrote: post #4

What I see is some people dont like foolish words on a screen so they want to clamp down on open discourse to control dialogue because in their opinion its fruitless or mean or whatever they feel. Some silly troll spamming idiotic statements is not nearly the threat that controlling dialogue on the net and deciding what is trolling and what isnt. Socrates would be labeled a troll these days if he was on social media.

If you're using Twitter to communicate with some people, and you're getting a hundred stomach-turning tweets in your feed every day, then you can't communicate with those people any more. Abuse isn't about discourse.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#155

Post by sp332 »

problems wrote: post #101
accountface wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to take down the website for my business and can only accept brick & mortar transactions because of trolls... but sure I guess you can win at your commenting game by claiming everything is shit. I've been running a business with multiple locations for 10 years and I've never had a problem more serious than trolls on the internet doxxing me.

See, this is the problem. Don't blame it on "trolls", analyze where you screwed up and how you could have defended yourself better so you know what to do next time. Then open up shop under a different alias. If you're not vigilant about your own security and safety, no one else will do it for you. Take responsibility for your own actions.

This is pretty egregious victim-blaming. If someone is getting abused it is the fault of the abuser and no one else.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#156

Post by pdelbarba »

freeflight wrote: post #152
pdeuchler wrote: post #137

The internet is as it always was, the only difference is more people, and more importantly more people without technological prowess and forum/bbs/irc experience, are accessing it and moving increasingly larger chunks of their life to the internet. As someone who fell in love with the internet when I was young because nobody knew I was young , it constantly surprises me when people put intimate details online and the…

>The internet doesn't magically make social, political, religious, and ideological rifts magically disappear, it just seemed like it did because nobody could associate users with their backgrounds. But one could argue that our modern "Social Media Internet" gives exactly that impression. Whether it's Google, Facebook, Twitter or whatnot: People are being funneled into "ideological bubbles" based on their preferences…

I remember reading "The Filter Bubble" about 6 years ago or so and thinking it was the dumbest thing since purple ketchup. Fast forward to the past 24 months and the concept has become more real than the internet itself...

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#157

Post by problems »

sp332 wrote: post #155
problems wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, this is the problem. Don't blame it on "trolls", analyze where you screwed up and how you could have defended yourself better so you know what to do next time. Then open up shop under a different alias. If you're not vigilant about your own security and safety, no one else will do it for you. Take responsibility for your own actions.

This is pretty egregious victim-blaming. If someone is getting abused it is the fault of the abuser and no one else.

You're as much a victim here as someone who downloads a tiny executable off a filesharing network and thinks it's the latest movie or game. Or falls for a Nigerian scam. These are accepted facts of the internet. We defend against them. Just as much as publishing your address or information which can be associated to it should be.

Precautions are important. You can never rid the world of evil, but you can protect yourself from it, especially trivially in this case.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#158

Post by greggman »

I find there's just in general a huge tragedy of the commons issue. Not just trolls but bad incentives in general

One example is people actively mis-tagging things. Go on soundcloud.com, look at the charts. Pick Techno, notice at least 5 of the top 50 songs are not techno in any way shape or form. Instead the artists just wanted to try to get on any chart possible and so tagged with as many tags as they could dream up.

I've seen a similar thing on other sites.

I have no idea how to solve that. I suspect soundcloud is not interest in hiring people to police and some how negatively incentivising the behavior.

They aren't the only site that has this problem. Stack overflow solves it with their point system and above a certain level you can edit/change tags but it requires volunteers to do the editing and finding a way to incentivise those volunteers to do a good job. (and I know many people are not happy with those volunteer's judgments)

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#159

Post by BeetleB »

boona wrote: post #109
ThrustVectoring wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're in the top 1% or 0.1% of filtering for quality, IMO. Go spend some "quality time" on /r/the_donald for a more typical experience.

I agree that /r/the_donald is a poor quality experience, but it's analogous and in response to the poor quality experience of the /r/politics. They're both "circlejerks" that don't allow competing views to be posted. So while you may need to take the_donald with a huge grain of salt, if you're only get your news from left wing site like /r/politics, npr, huff po, new york times, and even hacker news for the most part…

>I agree that /r/the_donald is a poor quality experience, but it's analogous and in response to the poor quality experience of the /r/politics. They're both "circlejerks" that don't allow competing views to be posted.

But years ago, /r/politics was not that way. The fact that it is is being used as a sign by many that the "trolls have won".

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#160

Post by Mendenhall »

st3v3r wrote: post #140
Mendenhall wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If i say "leslie jones sucks" am I trolling or do I think she actually sucks at her job. If a million people one after another go on leslie jones profile and say "leslie is a horrible actress" is that trolling ? harrassment ? If someone says "Trump sucks" should they be filtered out ? Do I think its a dialogue, heck no. Do I think it should be filtered, double heck no.

No. I am rejecting your reply. Go back and look at what happened to Leslie Jones, then try again. This is not simply "Leslie Jones Sucks".

You are conflating. I simply asked a question. I did not say that is what happened to Leslie. I do notice you avoid the question like the other who responded. That to me is very telling.
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