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Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

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Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#151

Post by hangonhn »

laurent123456 wrote: post #110
spyspy wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when they seriously start releasing electric vehicles They've been "serious" for a long time. Chevy has been selling the Volt since 2010. If they were going to muscle out Tesla they would have done it by now. And it's not just about technology. Tesla has the customer reputation that companies like GM will never have again.

> Tesla has the customer reputation that companies like GM will never have again. Tesla is more like a luxury brand so its biggest potential competitors will be the big 3 in Germany and possibly Lexus (which all have a pretty good reputation), and currently none of them propose that many options. Audi and Lexus have none. BMW has two, but only one of them can sort of compete with Tesla (can't go far with the i5 batte…

Oh there's a very good reason why the German carmakers are only now just getting started:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/german-governme...

In short, German carmakers' historical expertise in designing good internal combustion engines are worthless if electric cars take over. The auto industry is ripe for some serious disruption.

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#152

Post by radix07 »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #130
radix07 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is coming soon! Here is a Hybrid ZTR prototype my company has been working on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J34KU9OG9M8

That's nice and I would even consider buying one, but it's not a tractor. Need three point hitch, loader, PTO, and industrial tires. When you (or someone else) makes one with equivalence to about 30 or 40hp for under $30k and, I will instantly buy it.

The ZTR is just a test platform to ensure our motor drives can handle the load swings. We specialize in the power and drive systems, so we likely won't be making complete mowers ourselves.

All of those things are certainly doable, although we will be pretty much eliminating the hydraulic system, so the PTO and loader might need to be thought out a little differently.

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#153

Post by smogcutter »

dmix wrote: post #120

Tesla recently announced they are ramping up their Model 3 production even more than what some people thought was already optimistic numbers: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-27/tesla-mod... > For Musk to hit all of his targets, Tesla would need to build about 430,000 Model 3s by the end of next year. That’s more than all of the electric cars sold planet-wide last year. > Even if half of the Model 3 in…

A related concern is how well their repair and service operation scales. There are already repair horror stories all over internet for the relatively tiny number of cars already on the road.

The model S is a beautiful car, but it's a luxury toy. I'll venture that most Model S owners have at least one additional car. If you're in the market for a 35k sedan though, you're looking for a commuter and family car that needs to be reliable. Having it out of commission for three weeks while the one repair shop within 50 miles waits for a backordered part is unacceptable.

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#155

Post by danhak »

prolly_a_moron wrote: post #148
danhak wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you understand that's not what happens when shares are acquired on the open market?

> Do you understand that's not what happens when shares are acquired on the open market? Do you understand that Tencent bought shares in a secondary offering? Apparently you do, you said it. Not sure what you're arguing. Do you understand the purpose of selling shares is to raise money for operations?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Your comments suggest to me that you think there was yet another secondary offering associated with this news.

> The 8,167,544 shares of Issuer common stock were acquired by the reporting persons in a registered offering of common stock by the Issuer on March 17, 2017 and through open market purchases, for an aggregate purchase price of $1,777,842,836 (including commission).

That means Tencent acquired its position at an average price of $217 / share. The March 17 secondary was priced at $255 / share. Algebra tells us that > 98% of Tencent's position was acquired on the open market and the rest via the March 17 offering.

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#157

Post by erikpukinskis »

timr wrote: post #56
vvanders wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, which is why any entrenched player is going to have to both build an incredible car and fight against their dealerships to sell it.

Actually, the reason GM "doesn't care" about the Volt (I'm exaggerating here; they obviously care a little bit ) is because they're rational: electric cars are not popular with mass-market consumers, and it's far from clear that they're going to become popular. GM is investing in what sells, and right now (i.e. for the last decade or two), that's SUVs and light trucks. Which doesn't bode well for Tesla, at least in t…

> GM is investing in what sells, and right now (i.e. for the last decade or two)

Yup. They haven't adopted the Andy Grove/Bill Gates/Larry Ellison philosophy of "Only The Paranoid Survive," yet. They are banking on the expectation that if/when consumer interest spikes they'll be able to use their influence to jump to the front of the line, like they did with past ICE competitors.

The question is... will the electric car market be more like the ICE market where paranoia is (apparently) unnecessary, or the semiconductor/software markets where it is (apparently) quite important.

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#158

Post by sremani »

hockley wrote: post #115
timr wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, the reason GM "doesn't care" about the Volt (I'm exaggerating here; they obviously care a little bit ) is because they're rational: electric cars are not popular with mass-market consumers, and it's far from clear that they're going to become popular. GM is investing in what sells, and right now (i.e. for the last decade or two), that's SUVs and light trucks. Which doesn't bode well for Tesla, at least in t…

This kind of proves the thesis. EV is a hobby for the legacy guys that competes with much more powerful (by revenue) business units in the company. It's like expecting Kodak to compete and win with their own digital camera.

Every one does not start with a blank slate, that is a luxury Tesla has as an upstart. GM is "saved" to save jobs by US government. GM has paid back, but its operational reality depends on selling "profit-making" vehicles, which are SUVs and Trucks, pair it with cheap gas prices, there is a strategy for GM to be profitable.

Tesla on the other hand, lives and dies by its EV performance, and their approach to the market at higher end kept them alive along with loans from US with few strings attached (for various reasons).

Tesla did not "break through" any thing. If any thing, existence of BoltEV and Volt does demonstrate couple of things, a legacy car company when there are profits are going to turn on dime and make shit ton of EVs, if that is what market wants.

Tesla has brand recognition behind it, but again as some one pointed out when the market for EVs in high demand and profitable, from BMW to GM, you will have them roll EVs in millions.

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#159

Post by Consultant32452 »

laurent123456 wrote: post #33
jpeg_hero wrote: post #2

Tesla shorts can't get a break. First a smooth $1B+ capital raise without a stock hiccup and now this.

I didn't short the stock but I can understand why someone would. They are expected to generate over 90% of their value after 2020 [0]. There's the expectation that Elon Musk will definitely deliver, that Tesla market share will not be eaten up by other carmakers when they seriously start releasing electric vehicles. The expectation that electric and not another form of energy, such as hydrogen, will dominate, etc. Th…

I have a small investment in TSLA stock. What I'm betting on is that in addition to being a car manufacturer on the scale of Ford/GM that TSLA will also be the world leader in AI/driverless cars. I don't have a huge position, but intend to hold onto it forever.

Re: Tencent buys 5% of Tesla

#160

Post by prolly_a_moron »

danhak wrote: post #155
prolly_a_moron wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you understand that's not what happens when shares are acquired on the open market? Do you understand that Tencent bought shares in a secondary offering? Apparently you do, you said it. Not sure what you're arguing. Do you understand the purpose of selling shares is to raise money for operations?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Your comments suggest to me that you think there was yet another secondary offering associated with this news. > The 8,167,544 shares of Issuer common stock were acquired by the reporting persons in a registered offering of common stock by the Issuer on March 17, 2017 and through open market purchases, for an aggregate purchase price of $1,777,842,836 (including commission). That means Ten…

>Tencent's position was acquired on the open market and the rest via the March 17 offering.

Editing because I think we were talking past each other. Yes, I didn't mean this specific event. I tend to meld all these TSLA threads together in my mind.

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