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Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

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Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#151

Post by freese »

ccameron wrote: post #139
freese wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the comment! I hear ya. We're considering retail as an option in the future. Right now the subscription simply is the business model that makes sense for us - our current margins are too slim for retailers.

That makes sense. If you offered a batch where I could just buy a bunch and it stays good for a long while then I would definitely buy some in that model. That way I can simply stock some away and pull it out for trips or when I don't feel like making it / in a hurry etc. If you want to hit the backpacker market get some freebies out to blogs like Andrew Skurka, Section Hiker, Adventure Alan, Gear Junkie, etc. I don'…

These are all great - thanks! Although we don't advertise it on the website you can always email me and we can figure out something in terms of orders ;)

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#152

Post by freese »

ccameron wrote: post #147
freese wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the comment! I hear ya. We're considering retail as an option in the future. Right now the subscription simply is the business model that makes sense for us - our current margins are too slim for retailers.

And one more thing, can you figure out a great instant creamer? I've tried many instant creamers and they all taste terrible. I really like the Coffeemate Natural Bliss creamer line, but I've had trouble finding an instant creamer that I like. Maybe it's out there and I just haven't found it yet.

Working on it. They're all really bad, and I'm pretty confident we can make something a lot better.

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#153

Post by freese »

sargun wrote: post #96

So, I am curious -- A while ago I experimented with making a better instant coffee. I came up with a few different solutions. I'm curious as to whether you've looked into them: 1) Pouring a ristretto into liquid nitrogen. At reconstitution time, put into boiling water and stir. Issue: Cold coffee, potential colloid separation -- solutions might include some kind of stabilizer 2) Taking a ristretto and removing water…

1) You need to keep it frozen, right? That makes it a lot more complicated + probably issues with the colloids (we experienced that at one point)

2) The bigger challenge is actually brewing large amount of ristrettos/espressos, not necessarily concentrating it.

3) just sounds way too complicated to me to rival/equal soluble coffee

Edit: haven't really looked into any of these as a feasible option for us.

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#154

Post by freese »

objclxt wrote: post #128
gingerbread-man wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're spot on re: the water quality. An investigation at DFW a few years ago found hazardous levels of e.coli in the potable water tanks used to refill aircraft. I wonder why the airlines aren't doing anything about this. I'm not a frequent first-class passenger, but if I were, high-quality coffee would be a big deal for me.

> I'm not a frequent first-class passenger, but if I were, high-quality coffee would be a big deal for me. Many transatlantic and transpacific flights now have a proper grind-on-demand coffee machine (allowing for lattes, cappuccinos, etc) in business / first class. Doesn't necessarily solve the water problem, although they can fill them up from bottled (I don't know if they actually do).

Definitely looking to do plane coffee at some point but the water quality remains biggest issue.

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#156

Post by donw »

hablahaha wrote: post #125
bgun wrote: post #3

I'd love to try this, but minimum $19/mo subscription as the only "Buy Now" option?

I'm with you. I'd only want this sporadically, like when I'm camping and traveling or to give as gifts. I don't need it on a monthly basis and I feel conflicted about having to sign up only to cancel (and how easy is that?) within a month.

Same here.

From where I sit, Starbucks Via Instant is the competition. It's a notch above the urns of Folgers Freeze-Dried in the grocery store, but like all things Starbucks, still too bitter to really enjoy on its own.

Okay, so I'm not a coffee snob. I'll brew at home in the morning with water at the right temperature, but I'll use pre-ground beans from a vacuum pack. Sure, freshly roasted tastes way better, but as long as I can avoid the bitterness from over-extraction, I'm generally happy with what ends up in my mug.

Because it doesn't need sugar.

That was a revelation to me: that properly brewed coffee does taste pretty damn good on its own, maybe with a bit of milk to smooth out the rough edges.

But the point is, I have no shortage of coffee options at home: aeropress, coffee press, pour-over, good old drip machine. And when I travel, I would struggle mightily to care less about my coffee.

That all said, I would spend $20 for a sample pack to try while backpacking -- especially if it's truly epic coffee. Bringing milk along on the trail is... difficult at best, and it would be a nice little luxury to start the day with a cup of something genuinely tasty.

But starting off with a subscription, for a product I've never sampled? Unlikely.

Maybe I'm not the target market, and I could be drastically underestimating the number of coffee snobs in the world, but I suspect that this company struggle with the current offering.

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#157

Post by uptownfunk »

alaskamiller wrote: post #22

I work in the coffee industry and saw Sudden pop up last year so was interested in the technique and hacked it out. Freeze dried coffee is already what Folgers does and sell you. This is the more artisanal version of that since the big brands have big factories that can pump out plenty of instant coffee grounds. So this is a ramped up volume play on existing techniques perfected by the doomsday preppers. Youtube sear…

Downvote me to hell, but I think people drink too much coffee (and caffeinated drinks), it's just not necessary and is an addictive substance. I think it's a toxic substance honestly, tires the adrenals and heart out. Anyone else on here who abstains from caffeine?

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#158

Post by jlarocco »

I've recently cut down to one or two cups a day, and I'm not super picky, so I'm not the target market here, but I'll give my two cents anyway in case it helps.

Number one, $19 for 8 cups of instant coffee seems really expensive. I can get a really good basic coffee around here (Boulder, CO) for between $1.50 and $3, depending on size and quality. If the instant costs almost as much, I might as well just walk across the street.

Second, a subscription model seems strange for instant coffee. It's something I'll use when I don't want to make regular coffee, but also can't run across the street to buy one. I'm not in that position often, and I'm not even a coffee snob.

Just a random thought, but have you considered a tiered approach? Sell the first extraction at a higher cost, but also have a cheaper product line that does the extraction process two or three times to increase the yield?

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#159

Post by jacquesm »

freese wrote: post #144
iamacynic wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

none of the things you just mentioned are easy or cheap, so i feel like minimizing the "what they're doing" part is a bit strange, or maybe that's just how i read your text. most businesses when analyzed on paper like this are very simple, or are re-packaging existing ideas. that's not something i would put against a business idea. having said that, the primary reason i pound cold brew instead of making 2 or 3 aeropr…

Yup. In theory making good instant coffee is a pretty simple idea but I can tell you that if I knew what I know about the process I'm not sure I'd start this business all over again.

> I can tell you that if I knew what I know about the process I'm not sure I'd start this business all over again.

And yet, those often make the best businesses. Businesses that do not require extensive domain knowledge are easy to copy, businesses that have no 'moat' (barrier to entry) tend to be overrun by competition initiating a very early race to the bottom in price where the only thing that matters is to hit the largest possible scale as soon as you can.

Having a moat like this gives you breathing room, so cherish it.

Hard is good in startups.

Re: Launch HN: Sudden Coffee (YC W17) – Instant coffee that doesn't suck

#160

Post by freese »

bigtunacan wrote: post #142
tyre wrote: post #123

Maybe I'm biased, as a fellow YC founder, but I don't understand the negativity. 1) Sudden is the first company that I've actually considered buying instant coffee from. In the US, there's a pretty strong stigma against it, so that's not an easy task. 2) $3 per cup isn't a lot of money, roughly equivalent to a cup of coffee elsewhere in SF. Especially if I don't have to stop anywhere and can just put it in a water bo…

There is definitely some SV bubble around this. I can buy a local cafe pour over cup for less than this product. I can buy my own beans and heat the kettle and pour that over in less than 5 minutes. If I'm desperate and in hurry then I can make a cup of Keurig for a fraction of the cost.

I don't in any way disagree with you. If you're happy with those options then that's great - as you said, you'll save money. However, we're seeing that Sudden is a really compelling product to a lot of people. Most of our subscribers are outside of any larger cities and we ship to 42 states.

Sudden is not for everyone and we're totally ok with that. As YC says "it's better to have 100 people that really love you than 1M that just kind of like you" ;)

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