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Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

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Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#151

Post by josteink »

joosters wrote: post #63
josteink wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> automatically downloading of Windows 10 by Microsoft and bricking devices Downvote for falsely claiming PCs can be bricked[1], even more so by simply using Window-update, which at worst might require a reinstall if the install is botched. [1] The definition of a brick is that something is now completely non-functional, beyond repair and thus "as useful as a brick". Something which can be recovered is by definition…

You are splitting hairs. My dad's PC was as useful as a brick to him after it downloaded Windows 7 and then wouldn't boot. If you think 'reinstall' is an acceptable or realistic solution for average users, you are badly mistaken.

> You are splitting hairs. My dad's PC was as useful as a brick to him

But it was recoverable. You could just boot some installation medium, and you were good to go again.

You didn't have to throw the PC away. It was not converted into garbage.

See how that makes a difference? It's not a brick.

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#152

Post by cptskippy »

112233 wrote: post #150
cptskippy wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These complaints are somewhat valid and also not exclusively Windows things. I've experienced similar issues on every other major platform. > When copying files, copy progress dialog is sometimes opened hidden behind all other windows I've not personally experienced this. If you initiate a Copy and then change focus, the dialog will not steal focus. Perhaps that's what you're experiencing? I despise when apps steal f…

Thank you for the detailed response. It's really funny, I like windows 10 a lot, for me it's the best Linux distribution, but there are a few of these little things... To reply to some of your points to clean up possible misunderstandings: > If you initiate a Copy and then change focus, the dialog will not steal focus. Perhaps that's what you're experiencing? No, I drag or Ctrl-C/V file between two explorer windows a…

> I drag or Ctrl-C/V file between two explorer windows and a new window icon appears on a taskbar with progress indication

That's unusual. I just tried copying large swaths of files with varying combinations of Explorer snapped, unsnapped, overlapping, not overlapping, etc. In ever case the Copy window appears h/v Centered over the origin Explorer window.

Do you have anything that has custom Shell integration installed that might be causing some weird interaction? I tried this on a pretty bog standard install. I'll try to reproduce it later on a more customized system.

> The notice is mostly invisible (no dialogs)

Yeah, that seems like an area of user experience they could improve. Do you lock your PC? All my PCs require password unlock and when I unlock them notifications like "Updates were installed that require reboot" or "Windows Defender finished scanning your PC" always pop out from the Action Center briefly. That's been my que* to go inspect it.

> I manually install 341.81... some weeks later... a notification that driver was updated.

I'm curious what could be causing that. I have some old Logitech Webcam drivers installed because they removed some features in the Windows Update version of the Driver and it's never updated.

I guess you could go to extreme lengths and disable that function of Windows Update: http://winsupersite.com/windows-10/stop-automatic-driver-upd...

> See search results for "An App Default was Reset"

This seems to be a result of 3rd party applications changing file associations using mechanisms outside of the Windows Guidelines. This is a big problem for Microsoft with regards to the Start Menu Icons, Uninstall Utilities, Control Panel Programs, and apparently file associations. They have recommended specific ways of interacting with the OS since XP that have been routinely ignored. Now in Windows 10 they're making changes that break these unsupported mechanisms and are catching flak for it.

http://www.winhelponline.com/blog/windows-10-resetting-file-...

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#153

Post by brudgers »

oakwhiz wrote: post #149
brudgers wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contemporary commodity CPU's have all sorts of features that important customers want [1]. You probably are not an important customer if you don't own multiple large data centers of the sort located next to hydro-electric dams and who causes price drops on used high end Xeons when you upgrade the data center hardware. The CPU inside a CPU is vulnerable and it changes with every tic and toc. Windows 7 is pushing 8 yea…

Is there any evidence that suggests this might be the case?

What would count a evidence?

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#154

Post by tekklloneer »

cm2187 wrote: post #23
tekklloneer wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft does extensive testing, not just on the "instruction set", but also the chipsets and surrounding ecosystems of the processor. It's annoying, and probably well within their ability to, but also not inexpensive.

But intel develops the chipset drivers, not microsoft.

For something as core as chipset drivers, microsoft does heavy testing. They also do testing of combinations on various combinations of hardware.

"It should have worked" doesn't go far when an OEM is complaining that their users are having problems.

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#155

Post by tekklloneer »

mdekkers wrote: post #18
tekklloneer wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft does extensive testing, not just on the "instruction set", but also the chipsets and surrounding ecosystems of the processor. It's annoying, and probably well within their ability to, but also not inexpensive.

also not inexpensive Isn't that what we pay them not insignificant amounts of money for?

Most people are paying them money for a version of windows that works with the hardware they are buying. You won't be able to find an OEM selling win 7 on a ryzen box, for example.

If you buy a separate license, you should be aware of compatibility as well.

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#156

Post by oakwhiz »

brudgers wrote: post #153
oakwhiz wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any evidence that suggests this might be the case?

What would count a evidence?

Proof that there is an SMI related or Intel ME fault that is mitigated by Win10's kernel.

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#157

Post by rincebrain »

cptskippy wrote: post #105
rincebrain wrote: post #39

This seems like they have enormous pressure from on high to make sure Windows 7 doesn't become another XP that they have to support for 15 years By Any Means Necessary. If circumstances were different, I might even be applauding them for taking strong corrective actions against another XP doomsday scenario, or for moving to rolling release, both of which seem like great plans. The reason I'm not is that Windows 10 fe…

> Windows 10 feels unfinished and buggy to me. Everyone makes this point, no one elaborates it. How is it buggy and unfinished? I'm using it on 5 different devices with vastly different hardware profiles (1 modern gaming rig, 1 old gaming rig, 1 low end laptop, 1 convertible laptop, and 1 SFF PC) and they're all rock solid. I also use Windows 7 on my work laptop daily and moving back and forth between the two OSes da…

Windows 10 feels unfinished because a bunch of the UI seems to be in transition between older interfaces and newer ones, sometimes lossily - and I'm not talking about third-party components, I'm talking about things like configuring networking in Windows 10, or not being able to find a way to convince the new UI widget to tell you the capacity of batteries any more. (There were probably more examples, those were just the two that sprung to mind.)

It feels buggy because if I left File Explorer windows open, eventually all of explorer would stop responding until I killed it and restarted it. If I used a machine for a couple of days without restart, DWM would lock up and suddenly I'd get to try to remember the commands to kill dwm.exe and type them flawlessly without being able to see what I'm doing, or restart the machine. Sleep and hibernate, both of which work reliably under 7 on my laptop, have about a 50/50 shot of waking up or coming up to a black screen - which, itself, has a 50/50 chance of either being a login prompt which is just not displaying and if I enter my password and press enter, it will bring up the suspended environment, or just a permanently frozen unresponsive black screen. Oh, and Start Menu searching being completely broken - attempting to type, say, Firefox would prompt me to search the web for Firefox as the top result, or I could open All Programs and there's Mozilla Firefox.

I'm sure there are other things I've forgotten. But that's a concise list of what I recall.

(A quick addendum - my Windows 10 was patched up to date as of December 2016, which is when I sent my machine off for repair and started using 7 again, so this isn't just some artifact of the Windows 10 Preview or early builds.)

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#159

Post by brudgers »

oakwhiz wrote: post #156
brudgers wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would count a evidence?

Proof that there is an SMI related or Intel ME fault that is mitigated by Win10's kernel.

ME relies on security by obscurity (and hence the motivation of some for open source code). Of course that's not proof.

But I wouldn't rely on a Skylake ME's integrity for a public IP'd computer if it was running Windows 98 because it can be pwnd in ways that a Pentium Pro can not: replacing the disk drive won't get ownership back.

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#160

Post by MikusR »

sqldba wrote: post #94
CommanderData wrote: post #35

Yesterday I received a Gigabyte Brix i5 and wanted to run Windows 7. The process was painful. The Brix has no USB 2.0 ports and no legacy USB in the bios - So keyboard and mouse were non functional. Presumably the ISO was built pre-USB 3.0 era. So I had to customize a untouched image with USB 3 drivers. Drivers had to be downloaded from Gigabytes website. All to learn that MS update doesn't work with Kaby Lake. Great…

> except to painfully block in hosts Are you sure that's working for you? Microsoft ignores the hosts file for most addresses used in phoning home.

It's not ignoring but using ip addresses not hostnames. If you want to block you use a firewall. Even the built in one works.
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