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Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

nautil.us

151–160 of 208 posts

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#151
> Instances such as these have led many to suppose that creativity and psychopathology are intimately related.

I wonder if this is true is that why some think that using psychedelics have helped them see the world from different perspectives and be creative in their work world?

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#152
post #119

As a public figure, it wasn't worth burning my reputation to type this out, but I think that speaks to the state of discourse around mental health today. The article is uses the word "psychopathology" which is a general term for the study of mental disorders. However I want to talk specifically about Psychopathy as a disorder, because I recently came to understand that I am a psychopath. My guess is that there are pr…

I'm a rather emotional person with a very pronounced sense of empathy. I can, to an extent, feel physical or emotional stimuli that others feel, even if they're fictional characters or animals. It can be crippling but also very rewarding. Given that short context, your post is interesting to me partly because, from my perspective, it sounds like you're searching for some empathy from me so that the channels of commun…

Right, so that's the trouble with a self aware psychopath - I'm not sure what my motivations are beyond supporting my own ego and increasing my influence.

I have argued for a long time that everything everyone does is self-serving, it's just wrapped in all of this social/behavioral expectation. Maybe that's because I am unfamiliar with actual selflessness.

Can sociopaths express altruism - I argue yes insofar that the outcomes are mutually beneficial. I spent the first half of my professional life in public service, taking much less pay than I could have doing something else. I make special effort to volunteer and spend time during the holidays with the indigent - going so far as not to post or boast publicly because that is transparently self serving - letting others do that on my behalf.

All that is done though so I am "beyond reproach." So you can't say that I'm not great, that I haven't done everything possible to be a "good person." So when it comes time to implement what I want to implement, nobody can find any dirt on me or say I'm a selfish bastard - cause just look at all the good works people can prove that I've done and I never even boasted about them!!

I think this is on the higher end of the functional sociopath spectrum though.

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#153

Truthfully, I've found that the real difference in intelligence between people isn't so large as many people think it is. People don't generally come along and solve "intractable" problems because they're so much smarter than all the people who've tacked the problem prior to them. Instead, they approach the problem in a way that is fundamentally different. This is why outsiders are so frequently the people who make m…

> This is why outsiders are so frequently the people who make major breakthroughs in a field, and "genius" is correlated with eccentricity. That would be nice, if it were true. But it isn't. Those are the stories that everybody likes though, a bit like the kid with a 25c fishing rod out-fishing adults with 100's of $ worth of gear. But in practice, most progress in most fields is made by insiders, one tedious bit at…

It is possible to be both an "insider" and to approach problems with a new or unique (or eccentric) point of view.

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#154
post #77

As a public figure, it wasn't worth burning my reputation to type this out, but I think that speaks to the state of discourse around mental health today. The article is uses the word "psychopathology" which is a general term for the study of mental disorders. However I want to talk specifically about Psychopathy as a disorder, because I recently came to understand that I am a psychopath. My guess is that there are pr…

Glad you wrote this. I was often wondering whether it is possible to communicate with a psychopath. Communication requires trust, i.e. that the person you are speaking with isn't lying. With non-psychopaths this is achieved by the complex play of empathy, guilt etc. However, given that psychopaths lack these feeling the mechanism just doesn't work. It's an epistemic and, actually, quite terrifying problem: You have t…

Yea that's a great point. I think you can communicate with high functioning sociopaths as long as your goals align. Note that your goals are by default subordinate to mine but that sometimes near term ones can be the same. It's generally the case that it's better to build a coalition of people who have shared goals than just manipulate people into doing what you want.

If your goals are misaligned, you'll likely come away thinking that you communicated but you might be being manipulated - which depending on how good they are at it, you might not realize.

It is a challenge though when the situations are forced. If I'm forced to be in a situation that doesn't align with my goals (and also stroke my ego in a certain way that might not be obvious) I will subtly sabotage whatever is going on or horse trade with someone else so that I can get out of the work.

I wouldn't try and play the game theory approach (I assume you mean the prisoners dilemma style cooperate/non-cooperate primarily) with most sociopaths because while a lot of high functioning ones are really logical - we'll change the rules to make the advantage ours.

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#155
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but I feel compelled to ask: "eccentric sexually"? Overactive libido or something else?

Could just as well be inactive

You're right. I'm also afraid of what the answer would be.

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're programmers, the fast idiot is a computer.

I must be slow today. I had to read this comment to know what a fast idiot is. I too work with fast idiots. But now I'm slightly embarrassed. Time for more coffee I think.

I call them idiot savants.

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#157
post #20

Every time I read one of these articles about genius and madness, I become smug for a little while, then I get depressed because I realize that I haven't accomplished anything noteworthy, then I'm mildly reassured because occasionally my wife will spontaneously aver (contrary to all expectation) that I am a genius, then I get distracted and start chasing some ideas, then I get depressed again because, well, shit, I s…

Train your patience and inner peace. I feel tuned to another frequency, while most people listen to some signal I care about the noise blips and wonder why nobody notices.

There's truth in the genius of mainstream and average too.

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the real problem is giving a shit. Being a genius is nothing. Be kind to you.

>Be kind to you. This is probably the best lesson to learn in life. Love yourself. Forgive yourself. Put one foot in front of the other and keep moving. My mother used to tell me that I was a genius but I ignored her because she was a little crazy (literally). I think we should all try to find out what we are good at and try to improve that. The more I read HN the more I get humbled into knowing that I don't know or…

> For me the big accomplishment has been raising a family that is well adjusted and loving.

Which, for such a relatively common outcome, is no small thing.

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#159

As a public figure, it wasn't worth burning my reputation to type this out, but I think that speaks to the state of discourse around mental health today. The article is uses the word "psychopathology" which is a general term for the study of mental disorders. However I want to talk specifically about Psychopathy as a disorder, because I recently came to understand that I am a psychopath. My guess is that there are pr…

> As a public figure, it wasn't worth burning my reputation to type this out Why? > It's tiring as hell to live this life. So don't live it. In your opening sentence you say you must hide your identity and in your last sentence you say it is tiring to live like that. So don't hide behind the "mask of sanity" and then you don't need to be tired. It won't be easy, but nothing worthwhile is.

Thing to understand is, if you tell someone you are a sociopath they dissociate with you more or less immediately.

I know this because it happened about two weeks ago. I was with a group of friends and we were discussing things and I brought the topic up to see what their response was. It was generally met with "no way you aren't," "only serial killers are like that" etc... but in the end the whole thing just became morose. I heard later that the other couples had gone to breakfast the next morning without me, and that the bulk of the conversation was about how everyone really got freaked out about it and didn't really know how to deal with me now.

When I talked with my wife about it a long time ago she basically said "Well, I had my suspicions but now that I know it's real I can't ignore it." It basically made her question every interaction we had. She said it turned into living with some kind of robot, where she didn't know what was real and what wasn't.

It taints literally everything once people know about it. So it's not in my long term interest to be open about that fact.

Re: Both geniuses and madmen pay attention to what others ignore

#160
post #44

As a public figure, it wasn't worth burning my reputation to type this out, but I think that speaks to the state of discourse around mental health today. The article is uses the word "psychopathology" which is a general term for the study of mental disorders. However I want to talk specifically about Psychopathy as a disorder, because I recently came to understand that I am a psychopath. My guess is that there are pr…

Great comment. What do you think can be done to cope with this? Maybe empathy and emotions can be learned?

I'm honestly not sure, and I'm not sure if it's even advantageous to "fix." It's like flying a rocket, dangerous and could blow up at any time but might just get you to the moon.

I do know that it seems like there is an impending "break" coming where it all falls apart, but I'm not really sure what that looks like practically.

I think I've learned the right emotional responses to situations and people, but the way people describe emotion to me is something I don't think I'll ever be able to learn.

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