Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why the name Memphis Meats? I do not think that you are in Memphis.
They're not in Memphis. They're in San Francisco. My guess for why they're named Memphis Meats is ”[a founder's] family also owns a chain of 43 BBQ restaurants based out of Memphis, Tennessee"
Tyson Foods CEO: The Future of Food Might Be Meatless
151–160 of 205 posts
Re: Tyson Foods CEO: The Future of Food Might Be Meatless
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
And then 50 to 100 years after that people will look back on with bewilderment. "You mean you planted whole seeds, let them grow for months, watered them all the while, just to kill them, chop up their leaf, and ship that to people?" Plants are alive too.
Can plants suffer? How much energy/resources/time does it take to raise plant food sources vs an analogous amount of animal food sources? Do plants require antibiotics to raise at scale? What are the environmental tolls taken by raising plants vs animals?
Let's say I were to describe a living thing, that despite having no nerves or brain we could identify, responded to favorable stimuli in ways we could easily describe as a "favorable response" -- for example, the presence of usable energy would provoke the movement of appendages towards that energy source, and the presence of unfavorable or damaging stimuli would provoke an "unfavorable response", such as pulling appendages away from negative stimuli. As far as we could tell, the intelligence in this thing was perhaps entirely distributed throughout the creature rather than relying on a centralized processing center metaphor for thought. It doesn't seem to think in any way that we can easily translate, and for a very long time, we didn't even recognize they responded to stimuli at all -- but that's our fault.
This creature also can't make head or tails of us we presume, our experiences of the universe are simply too entirely different. We have a few appendages, bilateral symmetry, and a mix of sensory organs -- mostly in the same appendage stalk as our central thought organ. Perhaps instead of our familiar mix of sense, this creature had an entirely different set that prioritized entirely different things -- perhaps instead of taste, the organism had some alternate way of assessing chemical composition, instead of sight, it had thousands of narrow-band EM sensing organs on the end of each appendage. Perhaps its digestive system was on the outside, a little like ours, but also turned inside out, so it merely had to have external contact with usable nutrients, not ingest it. Perhaps it transported nutrients around without a central cardiopulmonary organ but using nothing but capillary action, lungs were distributed on the underside of each of the EM sensing organ and it's "blood" didn't rely on metals to bind to Oxygen but instead was simply a nutrient stew. What if the bulk of its carbon (sure, its carbon-based) came not from food, but was simply pulled out of the air?
Let's suppose this being had no mouth or way of making noise, but communicated with its fellow species using various chemical exchanges, for example, suppose one of the creatures was attacked, it might release warning chemicals into its environment letting others of its species prepare themselves by pulling back appendages, or reducing the flow of its internal blood analogue. Or perhaps when mature members of the species learned of new sources of nutrients, they might share those nutrients with young members of the species through this exchange network. Perhaps the way this species "screams" is by releasing a gas into the air that warns others nearby.
Mating and reproduction depends on the species, but there are sexes. Species members have various life-stages that include an infancy analogue, a childhood analogue (with growth spurts), a sexual maturity stage and many even have old age. Some species can reproduce on their own, others require symbiotic species to help facilitate reproduction.
If creatures like this dropped out of space in a spacecraft we'd call them aliens and see if we could learn their language and their technology.
Would you think of this creature as something that can suffer?
All I've described are plants.
> How much energy/resources/time does it take to raise plant food sources vs an analogous amount of animal food sources?
Animals require more energy to raise than plants in general. However, animals can be raised on food stock that both:
a) humans can't eat
b) grows where human ready food plants don't grow well
> Do plants require antibiotics to raise at scale?
Yes, as well as other various chemicals and treatments from chemicals that kill non-desirable plants to chemicals that kill non-plant animals, to chemicals that kill fungi or bacterial infections. Plants even get viruses.
> What are the environmental tolls taken by raising plants vs animals?
Very difficult to ascertain. The world will have animals in it one way or the other. But nearly all domestically raised plants and animals are the product of thousands of years of engineering and intense cultivation. For example, cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, kale, brussel sprouts, collard greens, savoy, kohlrabi and gai lan are all human engineered variations of the same plant. This plant only occurs naturally in very specific ecological niches. One could argue that the millions of acres dedicated to growing these mutants are millions of acres where the natural ecology is permanently damaged. But humans have been at the cabbage game for a few thousand years, it would be impossible to know what nature would have intended for that land.
Similarly, cows are famously highly domesticated food, clothing, labor and milk animals with few close wild cousins due to about 11,000 years of intense selective breeding. But there's something like 1.5 billion cows in the world. If we stopped eating cows today, there'd still be 1.5 billion cows. It's obviously not ethical to just kill them all. Is it ethical to deny them natural breeding rights as well? Cows appear to take pleasure in their offspring, would it not be a slow genocide to simply end their line? We can't ask cows, they don't talk, just as much as plants don't, but we know they have emotions and moods, can be happy, excited, fearful or sad. Would a cow feel sad if it knew it could never have calves?
Re: Tyson Foods CEO: The Future of Food Might Be Meatless
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Something that's been done for 5,000 years doesn't get stopped that quickly. Doesn't this prove too much?[1] Plenty of things were common for millennia before they suddenly weren't. Eg: Monarchies, slavery, beasts of burden, and diseases such as smallpox. 1. https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/13/proving-too-much/
> they suddenly weren't. Eg: Monarchies, slavery, beasts of burden, and diseases such as smallpox. Except that every one of those things still exists! Smallpox doesn't exist, but other diseases such as syphilis do. So that actually demonstrates exactly the opposite of the point you were trying to make. Monarchies is an especially bad example because they still exist precisely because people are unwilling to stop a tr…
I'm not sure that's the reason; perhaps the largely-symbolic monarchies of Europe, but the substantive monarchies in the world are actually mostly quite newly established.
Re: Tyson Foods CEO: The Future of Food Might Be Meatless
#154What heartens me is that the shift towards plant-base protein can be gradual while still having a large impact. Ingredients like ground beef make up the majority(?) [1] of beef sold and there are already good plant based simulacra on the market [2] with more coming soon. I have my doubts we'll see anything marketable and cost competitive that could compete with larger cuts of meat in the next decade, but I could see…
Honestly, if all you do is just stop eating beef, you'll cut your footprint from meat by more than half. A serving of chicken takes about 20% of the resources of the same serving of beef. Lighter cuts of meat combined with the right spices are a gateway to lots of interesting dishes with less or even no meat.
Re: Tyson Foods CEO: The Future of Food Might Be Meatless
#155My meal tonight also had no meat in it (another tofu dish), but used some fermentation of the soybeans (Doenjang [1]) to create an incredibly savory and rich soup stock. I'll probably eat a burger tomorrow, but I don't see these other foods as penalty foods and I'll often choose them over the meat foods because they taste good, not for any other reason.
It's a bit like buying a Tesla, it's a no compromises great car, not a penalty box like the market tried to push for years. Great vegetarian food doesn't even have to be labelled as vegetarian, it just has to be great food and people will choose to eat it.
Re: Tyson Foods CEO: The Future of Food Might Be Meatless
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
This would work better if we didn't have to grow more plant material to feed the meat than just feeding ourselves directly.
That's a very American thing to grow crops and ship them off to other farmers to feed their animals. Most meat animals (or at least goats, sheep, and cows) worldwide feed on whatever grows on the ground (whether that be turnips, grass, or something else).
Poultry is going to be almost all feed. Along with Pork.
Those are the 3 biggest sources of meat by far.
Re: Tyson Foods CEO: The Future of Food Might Be Meatless
#157Animal agriculture seems to me like one of those things that in 50 to 100 years people will look back on with bewilderment. "You mean you birthed whole animals, let them grow for two years, fed them all the while, just to kill them, chop up their remains, and ship that to people?" Plant based protein and maybe even more so cultured/clean meat (e.g. http://www.memphismeats.com/ ) seem likely to totally replace how we…
A cow's rumen is amazing. You can feed a cow almost any vegetable matter and they will grow and produce milk and meat. Chickens and pigs are more particular but in terms of energy in to food out, are still very inexpensive and easy to manage. Cell cultures require sterile laboratory conditions, growth factors and very specific nutrient requirements.
A largely plant-based diet, sure, that is what most (but not all) of our hunter gatherer ancestors ate, but I doubt cell cultures will ever get within even a order of magnitude of the efficiency of growing and eating real animals.
Re: Tyson Foods CEO: The Future of Food Might Be Meatless
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
> As evidence look at how many people want to "go back to the farm", and raise their own animals. On the surface, why? It's harder and more expensive. Yet, people want that anyway. No one is "going back to the farm" to raise their own cattle, which they slaughter themselves, for a steak. It also doesn't scale to the "buy cheap steaks and grill a steak for lunch every day" level that some people do. Just the reduction…
"Do you think that the majority of people 100 years go could afford the variety and quantity of meats available to them today?" If we go back to our origins the savannah was probably occasionally full of delicious four legged protein just waiting for us to run it down and eat it.
Easter has this 'egg theme', again, eggs were not a year round thing. Available at Easter and sometimes later in the year if chickens had a 'second brood'.
So, no, 100 years ago meat was scarce and valued, not wolfed down without a second thought.
Re: Tyson Foods CEO: The Future of Food Might Be Meatless
#159Animal agriculture seems to me like one of those things that in 50 to 100 years people will look back on with bewilderment. "You mean you birthed whole animals, let them grow for two years, fed them all the while, just to kill them, chop up their remains, and ship that to people?" Plant based protein and maybe even more so cultured/clean meat (e.g. http://www.memphismeats.com/ ) seem likely to totally replace how we…
Why the name Memphis Meats? I do not think that you are in Memphis.
Re: Tyson Foods CEO: The Future of Food Might Be Meatless
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agreed. People should stop going for a veggie burger that tastes like a beef burger. Instead, compare a beef burger to completely different, high quality, vegan meal like a veggie green curry, tikka masala, or burrito.
(note: I'm a chef of a fine dining restaurant, so take this how you will). Telling people to change won't work. But at the same time, people in my position(available to influence flavours of a region), should do our part in not restricting ourselves to animal products. This I have seen happen over the past 10 years, the amount of reduced meat or no meat items on my menus has increased, as well as doing more to use su…