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UK government considering a “cut-off date” for EU citizens’ rights to residency

independent.co.uk

151–160 of 182 posts

Re: UK government considering a “cut-off date” for EU citizens’ rights to residency

#151
post #46

This should cause inflation of prices as the price of food increase. This is due to it being more expensive to produce food in the UK versus importing it from for example Spain and the Netherlands. Thus the average UK consumer will be poorer. Not limited only products such as vegetables.

It also creates more jobs, less of that money leaving the UK as remittances, and pressure on businesses with workers paid so low that consumption of basic products eats up a large part of their wages to raise those wages. So who knows how it will shake out. It's certainly not an unambiguous moral good to have a class of people in the country who can unofficially be treated worse than the native-born because they're expected to live in squalor to support their families back home.

Re: UK government considering a “cut-off date” for EU citizens’ rights to residency

#153
post #6

It's sad how even the Independent is now taken by misleading headlines. They are considering stopping it 'after a “cut-off date”'' to prevent abuse of people from poor eastern Europe countries to flood UK before it leaves the EU. Right there in the first couple of paragraphs. I used to have a lot of respect for the BBC, Financial Times, and The Independent. Even The Guardian being partisan had the basic decency of pu…

Yup I fully agree, the change in the BBC has become the most disheartening for me. One of their subheadlines right now is "Nine epic award fails" - like something straight out of Buzzfeed

Agreed, I've been strongly pro-BBC my whole life and recently even I'm starting to have serious doubts.

Re: UK government considering a “cut-off date” for EU citizens’ rights to residency

#154
post #6

It's sad how even the Independent is now taken by misleading headlines. They are considering stopping it 'after a “cut-off date”'' to prevent abuse of people from poor eastern Europe countries to flood UK before it leaves the EU. Right there in the first couple of paragraphs. I used to have a lot of respect for the BBC, Financial Times, and The Independent. Even The Guardian being partisan had the basic decency of pu…

It doesn't pay to have an informative headline because revenue is based on the amount of people who open your webpage, not the amount of people who get informed by you. This is another bit of damage done by the disgusting ad industry.

I often ponder the principle that some things should not be for-profit, at least not in the same all-in 'whatever legal means to generate profit' setting in which most regular companies operate. This includes parts of the press, of healthcare actors, and 'baseline human life logistics' such as limited means for food/shelter/transportation for everyone.

Historically (read: empirically, as demonstrated by the real world regardless of what theories think), there are two ways to go about this, both having their set of issues:

- Socializing to some extent, but States are bad bad bad at anything economics (and overspend, mismanage, etc.)

- Non-profit legal statuses, with the appropriate amount of tax exemption, incentives, etc.; but then you enter a world of non-competition which produces abysmally low returns (and even if nobody actually profits, we still need these entities to remain efficient).

I think the ad industry, regarding the press for instance, is just one of the factors motivating the above top/general principle; i.e. that profit-seeking is detrimental to some missions/goals. Nonetheless necessary for said missions to be conducted in the first place (quality journalism, for instance, requires suitable compensation).

I certainly don't pretend to know the answer but a few empirically-motivated ideas emerge as we see this century unfold with its specific attributes.

1 - The creation of a legal status between companies and States: a "Citizen layer" of sorts which shares goals with States (not for profit, on a mission for the public good) but is managed just like regular companies (including competition/anti-trust, regular hiring without elections). This should allow "bad seeds" to die just like bad banks, and the good ones (which would actually make profit, and in time lower costs/increase quality) to thrive.

2 - Giving a "universal wage" to a pre-defined subset of some professions (e.g. N journalists) so as to ensure they exist and don't have to worry about profit (but the competition between journalists remains; as an individual you still have to actually be employed by a news outlet to receive said wages, it's not a right but a finite subvention, it's just removing the burden for that news outlet to make profit to pay you). Obviously there's still competition between news outlets.

There are many, many issues with these ideas, especially drafted hastily like that, but I think these are avenues worth considering. To put a few buzzwords into it, 1 is the idea of crowd-sourcing most of States' work and putting the management back into citizen control instead of elected/officials which are usually not qualified. 2 is just extending the notion of universal income to domains that would be deemed as essential as food or shelter for a population, e.g. information services (press). 1 is generally a weakening of the State where it fails historically, towards a more realistic economically-savvy model, with the added benefit of empowering citizenry as a whole. 2 is conversely a slight re-balancing towards a little dose of 'privately owned communism' when things are indeed of common good or interest (such as information), but limited to money transfers (States don't run anything, they just allocate funds they previously used internally).

Clickbait is just one symptom among many of an unbalanced system (let's not even talk about the general intellectual level of public debate at a time when more people are educated than ever in human history). There's a much larger picture to consider if we are to make our societies more efficient (information being key to democracy, and beyond that to a 'smart', 'informed' population, able to build progress).

Re: UK government considering a “cut-off date” for EU citizens’ rights to residency

#155
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is the UK different in this regard?

The question is, do people from Romania and Bulgaria need a visa? Looks to me they can not just move to the UK but maybe the UK has different agreements with this countries. Just checked: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Romanian... Looks like they don't need anything but a passport to go to the UK.

That's because of the EU citizenship, which allows the free movement of people. Obtaining a work permit might be a different thing, but I'm really just guessing here...

Re: UK government considering a “cut-off date” for EU citizens’ rights to residency

#156
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet you don't see any blatant pro-Brexit or pro-Trump stories here

Why do you think that is due to astroturfing? Everyone is free to post stories from Breitbart, Daily Mail or Russia Today. I guess they just don't get enough upvotes.

I'd be willing to bet that those particular sites are weighted negatively here. There are pro-Trump policy articles from more mainstream conservative sources, though.

Re: UK government considering a “cut-off date” for EU citizens’ rights to residency

#157
post #9
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My perspective is a little bit different. If they want to kick me out, I'll go somewhere else. I am Irish; the probability is high that my nationality will be treated differently owing to history. But if they want me to ask to stay, they can go fuck themselves.

> If they want to kick me out Did the article? This is about a cutoff date to stop a wave of last minute immigrants. Nothing about expelling current ones. Don't let clickbait headlines make you angry.

How will border control at the airport distinguish between EU citizens who are allowed to come in, and those who need to fill out some paperwork and will be kicked out if they overstay their implied visa / waiver?

Re: UK government considering a “cut-off date” for EU citizens’ rights to residency

#158
post #85

As a CTO of a London based tech startup who has just employed an EU national with a start date after the 15th of March this article is terrifying.

I employed one 6 months ago and literally just scheduled an interview with another this morning for later in the week. Fun times...

Re: UK government considering a “cut-off date” for EU citizens’ rights to residency

#159
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure Romania is in Schengen. As someone that spends more than half the year in Romania I know I hear it mentioned a lot.

Actually, I am 100% sure that Romania IS NOT Schengen. And the UK is also not Schengen. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area I nearly f. this up when I was traveling with my Non-EU girlfriend who was on a single entry Visa and I was about to book a flight for us from Vienna to Sofia to travel in East Europe. The question is: Can citizens of Bulgaria and Romania just move to the UK without further requirements?…

> Can citizens of Bulgaria and Romania just move to the UK without further requirements?

Yes. This right has nothing at all to do with Schengen.

The transitional restrictions for Bulgarians and Romanians, implemented when the two countries joined the EU, ended on 1 January 2014.

Re: UK government considering a “cut-off date” for EU citizens’ rights to residency

#160
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't pay to have an informative headline because revenue is based on the amount of people who open your webpage, not the amount of people who get informed by you. This is another bit of damage done by the disgusting ad industry.

I often ponder the principle that some things should not be for-profit, at least not in the same all-in 'whatever legal means to generate profit' setting in which most regular companies operate. This includes parts of the press, of healthcare actors, and 'baseline human life logistics' such as limited means for food/shelter/transportation for everyone. Historically (read: empirically , as demonstrated by the real wor…

While I agree that a profit centric competetive society is not the best solution, in this case I see the problem more with how the profits are distributed. When you aren't motivated to build trust to get people to give you money for your work anymore but instead are motivated to get people to look in your direction so you can show them something they might actually spend money on, it seems pretty inevitable quality will suffer.
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