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US Customs block Canadian man after reading his Scruff profile

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Re: US Customs block Canadian man after reading his Scruff profile

#151

Post by mc32 »

wvenable wrote: post #149
mc32 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see members of congress agreeing to privacy right at the border for citizens --only a very few would support the same for non-citizens, even Dems. There is no political upside to that position and it serves a very small percentage of Americans, indirectly, so, that's not going to fly.

There are many places in the US where a significant part of the economy comes from tourism.

Yes, but we're not Costa Rica. It's not grievous. And business interests aren't supposed to be the measuring stick dictating policy, some argue.

Re: US Customs block Canadian man after reading his Scruff profile

#152

Post by yestoallthat »

piotrkaminski wrote: post #91
inlined wrote: post #78

> US Customs officers didn’t even need to ask for his passwords — they were saved in their own system This is also horrifying. So there's a government database of plaintext passwords and a massive body of people have legitimate access?

OTOH, not changing all your passwords after having to divulge them under duress is pretty careless, too.

If wiping your browser history is "suspicious", then surely so would be changing your password and not divulging the changed one, so how is that any comfort?

Re: US Customs block Canadian man after reading his Scruff profile

#153

Post by sneak »

tempestn wrote: post #113
sneak wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My phone almost always costs around a thousand dollars, roughly the amount the guy persecuted by the CBP was complaining about losing on flights. It's also instrumental for getting me from the airport I land at to my hotel, as well as remembering the name and address of the hotel I need to travel to from the airport. I would do what you suggest but a) the Apple store isn't always open when I land, and b) I have no wa…

And besides, it still wouldn't help. They could hand you a device and tell you to log into your social media accounts. If you say you don't have the passwords because of whatever technical measures you cooked up to make them temporarily inaccessible, you're back to, "Don't do that next time. You're not entering today."

They have to let US citizens in, provided you've proven citizenship.

Re: US Customs block Canadian man after reading his Scruff profile

#154

Post by piotrkaminski »

yestoallthat wrote: post #152
piotrkaminski wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OTOH, not changing all your passwords after having to divulge them under duress is pretty careless, too.

If wiping your browser history is "suspicious", then surely so would be changing your password and not divulging the changed one, so how is that any comfort?

I'm sure you'd be made to divulge the new passwords, but at least the passwords stored in their database -- that could be accessed by god-knows-who -- wouldn't be usable for the weeks or months between cross-border trips.

Re: US Customs block Canadian man after reading his Scruff profile

#155

Post by dvcrn »

As a engineer, I was quite curious to visit the US and maybe even consider it as a destination for working, but that was before I knew all the things that are going on there like problems with visas, racism (police shooting people without any repercussions), internet privacy, gun control and, yes, the border control.

Currently, I have absolutely no intention of even flying through the US. The only reason I could imagine doing it is if I were to have a onsite interview at some companies headquarters; or if I through some miracle get tickets for I/O or WWDC. That would be about it. And if I get a ticket, I would now have to think about a plan how I could keep my data safe while still taking my phone/laptop with me. It's a shame really.

(Unrelated side story: I am a frequent traveller and invested good money into a nice robust trunk. I usually have the PIN lock on it with the normal TSA key thing for them to open it. I took it to a dozen countries and never had any problems, but at the first time through the US it got directly broken open (despite TSA lock), my stuff left in a messy state and I got the usual paper notice about a TSA inspection. Now I can't close the trunk correctly anymore and will probably have to buy a new one. Booh.)

Re: US Customs block Canadian man after reading his Scruff profile

#156

Post by rowanseymour »

NamTaf wrote: post #141
rowanseymour wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only 19% of the US population voted for Trump, and only a portion of those actually wanted people to be harassed at airports. There are a lot bad things happening right now, but for the most part, the US hasn't changed fundamentally in the last month, and it's still full of great people and amazing places to visit.

This existed before Trump. That's why I said 'the last few years'. It seems like the US government has had a steady drift towards police state for some time. This is reflected in many facets of the government's approach to authority, for exmaple the militarisation of police forces, border controls, TSA, etc. etc.

Fair point and I agree about that steady drift which I think really got going after 9/11.

Re: US Customs block Canadian man after reading his Scruff profile

#157

Post by lmm »

struppi wrote: post #110
SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any basis for your last point? I legitimately don't know many of my passwords, there's no legal obligation to know them, and the law generally cant compel you to do impossible things (eg, tell them something you don't know). They can subpoena my password safe, just like any other file on my computer, and possibly require I unlock it (this is disputed), but I don't see any reason they can demand I reproduc…

First, IANAL, and I am not an expert for the situation in the US. So you're probably right. But in the UK, you can go to jail for not disclosing your cryptographic keys. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_disclosure_law#United_King... Here is a story of a person who went to jail for not disclosing his keys: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/24/ripa_jfl/?page=1 He said he kept silent "because of principle", but I gu…

The prosecution has to show that you know the keys to convict you under that law.

Re: US Customs block Canadian man after reading his Scruff profile

#158

Post by bonzini »

struppi wrote: post #110
SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any basis for your last point? I legitimately don't know many of my passwords, there's no legal obligation to know them, and the law generally cant compel you to do impossible things (eg, tell them something you don't know). They can subpoena my password safe, just like any other file on my computer, and possibly require I unlock it (this is disputed), but I don't see any reason they can demand I reproduc…

First, IANAL, and I am not an expert for the situation in the US. So you're probably right. But in the UK, you can go to jail for not disclosing your cryptographic keys. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_disclosure_law#United_King... Here is a story of a person who went to jail for not disclosing his keys: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/24/ripa_jfl/?page=1 He said he kept silent "because of principle", but I gu…

Even in the UK the two situations are different. In the cases you cited, not surrendering passwords is considered to be contempt of court. At a border, you might be denied entry, which is bad, but that's it.

Re: US Customs block Canadian man after reading his Scruff profile

#159

Post by chinathrow »

techdragon wrote: post #126
struppi wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They signed it.

Signatory, Ratified, Implemented. These and other words making up the jargon of diplomacy mean very different things. For example: UNCLOS - "Although the United States helped shape the Convention and its subsequent revisions, and though it signed the 1994 Agreement on Implementation, it has not signed the Convention as it objected to Part XI of the Convention." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_parties_to_the_Uni…

Thank you for pointing these things out.

Additionally, the US wages illegal wars all the time - against the UN charta where only aggression for self defence or with a UN mandate is allowed.

Re: US Customs block Canadian man after reading his Scruff profile

#160

Post by smsm42 »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #27

In the US right now visiting, am Canadian. Was a pain, was held up over an hour at the border (via land). Apparently they don't believe there's any reason for a Canadian to visit the US as a tourist, we only want to work illegally (they're partially right, only came to visit family, our national parks are nicer). Also, based on my family members' experiences of working in the US, it's easier to work illegally than to…

The problem is it's very easy to make entering the country hard for legal immigrants and tourists - you just make tons of strict rules, tell border control to enforce them vigorously and voila! But it's much harder to crack down on illegal immigration, since by definition they won't follow laws and rules.

You'll need to spend a lot of money and effort on finding them and getting them out, on enforcing eligibility checks at workplaces, etc. And face very strong political opposition - since it's one thing just not to let the person in and very different thing to uproot a person who already has been in for a while, got some local contacts, established themselves, etc.

Now add people that oppose virtually any immigration enforcement for political reasons, and you've got the situation US is now in - there are about 10M illegal immigrants, about 1M have final deportation orders (which mean the state ordered them to leave now, all process, appeals, etc. have been exhausted) and ICE has in custody about 12K (yes, 12K out of 1M), where are the rest - nobody knows and nobody will know.

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