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Craigslist Is Ugly, Janky, Old School, and Unbeatable

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Re: Craigslist Is Ugly, Janky, Old School, and Unbeatable

#151
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used Craigslist in several different locations in the US over the last 10-15 years, with I don't know how many transactions. I've never had a problem, except for the occasional buyer who tries to offer a lower price after showing up in person when the ad says "firm".

I've experienced that a lot. Beyond that, Craigslist's anonymity makes it an easy vector for fraud, fencing stolen property, and other crime.

Yeah, but how much of a problem is that really?

For instance, the last thing I bought on CL was a washer/dryer set, as my ancient washer finally bit the dust and needed a part that cost much more than a new economy washer. I seriously doubt the nice older lady I bought from had somehow stolen a washer and dryer to resell to me.

Re: Craigslist Is Ugly, Janky, Old School, and Unbeatable

#152
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now it's lazy and selfish to not take every ounce of surplus you can out of a market? Some folks just want to lay back and enjoy life. If I were Craig I'd sit on that goldmine for the rest of my life - most likely it will finance a very decent lifestyle until the day he dies. Why bother with the stress of expanding and doing what everyone else is doing? I'm completely convinced that strategy makes for miserable peopl…

>Isn't Craig living the hacker's dream? A reasonably useful service that provides value to customer, that once built you don't have to put much effort into maintaining or improving - because it works. Then you spend the rest of your free time on the beach. I don't know about you, but real hackers get personal enjoyment from creating software, products, and innovating. They don't do it so they can "spend the rest of t…

The beach was a bad example, but I think we agree here. I used it to illustrate that a hacker (at least what I think of when I say the word) is not primarily motivated by money - he's motivated by creating useful things people use. The goal of automating your daily job out of existence so you can move on to more enjoyable activities. Just a side note: some of the best hacking I've done was on a beach building some really cool stuff.

So in my world (I do consider myself a hacker, if a poor version of one) if I create something like Craigslist I don't try to squeeze every ounce of profit out of it at the expense of customers and employees. I spend as little time as possible on that solved problem which pays my bills, and I go hack on new problems that have yet to be solved. This may be in tech, but it may simply be learning an entirely different skill entirely. Work I leave as work, and of course hack on any interesting problems that come from that area of my life as needed. If I did my job right though building it, that should be relatively rare.

> In fact, if you are trying to just make enough money to spend the rest of your free time on the beach etc, you're probably not a real hacker.

I'd probably argue against this based on my above statement. I know very few folks I would describe as hackers who are motivated to make money beyond what they need to comfortably live and fund the projects/research they are personally interested in. Stacking millions in a bank account isn't something that motivates the folks I was describing - building things and living a free life is what I think motivates that archetype.

Re: Craigslist Is Ugly, Janky, Old School, and Unbeatable

#153
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.w3fools.com/

all that link says is that w3c is "not reputable". no evidence. For learning the basics in webdev (coming from C/C++) I've never had a problem with w3c.

It used to have more detail:

https://web.archive.org/web/20110117085131/http://w3fools.co...

Even if they have fixed all these instances since then, that all those errors were ever produced is a bad sign, especially when there were better alternatives even then.

Re: Craigslist Is Ugly, Janky, Old School, and Unbeatable

#154

Network effect, reliability, free, anonymous, ability to run without JavaScript. If Craigslist decided to modernize today, they could potentially disrupt the state of things on the internet. Facebook is trying to move in on their territory for sure. Unfortunately, I don't think they will. If a new-kid-on-the-block could offer anonymity, reliability, and free regional market based transactions, with preferably integra…

You actually can't use Craigslist over Tor, so it's not anonymous. Also, your contact details can be leaked in their email relay system. If your name in your Gmail account is Jane Doe, the other person will receive an email from a Craigslist domain with your name as the sender... so just be careful.

Re: Craigslist Is Ugly, Janky, Old School, and Unbeatable

#155
post #63

Am I the only one who doesn't think Craigslist is "Ugly or Janky"? It's one of the only places left on the web where I can go and not be bombarded by ads, pop ups, crazy amount of JavaScript and slow loading. It just works and is intuitive to use. The only major thing I feel is missing is the ability to search through multiple locations at the same time.

You CAN search multiple locations! Go to Google, type in your search term, then append "site:craigslist.org" to the search term.

IMO, I shouldn't have to use Google to search Craigslist listings. Plus, this method only gives you listings that Google has already indexed.

Re: Craigslist Is Ugly, Janky, Old School, and Unbeatable

#156
post #63

Am I the only one who doesn't think Craigslist is "Ugly or Janky"? It's one of the only places left on the web where I can go and not be bombarded by ads, pop ups, crazy amount of JavaScript and slow loading. It just works and is intuitive to use. The only major thing I feel is missing is the ability to search through multiple locations at the same time.

It is not just the sans-js experience about craigslist that people complain about. It is the coloring and lack of nice CSS stuff too. And I am pretty sure if you took a developer from say 6 years ago and told them to look into the front-end code, they could optimize the KB and keep the site looking the same. I am also sure you could optimize the way it is organized and bring some civility and style to posts without d…

What people complain about that? Other developers or people in tech? Sure it doesn't look as modern by today's standards but is changing the styling, font, etc. going to make it easier to use? Doing so may actually startle a lot of users which is most likely why they have only made small changes over the years.

I have seen a lot of CL alternatives that look nicer at first glance but the UI lacks. Sometimes more features is not a good thing. KISS principle is oftentimes better especially when you are working with such a wide user base such as Craigslist.

CL only has 30 employees, never took VC, is one of the most highly visited sites and brings in millions of profit a year. Not many other web companies can claim that. If I were in that position, I don't think I would be too worried about the tech community complaining about how ugly my site was especially if my users continued to come back and benefit.

CL does have rss feeds (example https://slo.craigslist.org/search/web?format=rss) but they have pretty strict terms on how you can use them.

Re: Craigslist Is Ugly, Janky, Old School, and Unbeatable

#157
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Founder: The paradigm has shifted. 5kb HTML pages are no longer disruptive enough, we need more javascript for a- VC: Shut up and light this bag of cash on fire. Focus on number of non-paying users and make sure it's big enough so I can introduce you to more people with bigger pile of cash to light on fire. Craigslist Post: We are hiring front-end React.js developers with 10+ year experience.

HR: We hire the best of the best! Are you a passionate code ninja that lives and breathes code?! Show us your github and bitbucket profiles and enter the Craigslist Hackathon today! We promise we'll consider you.. and then go whine on HN about how hard it is to find a truly qualified candidate.

HR: Oh we are sorry but it seems like you aren't having enough "fun" by committing your waking hours contributing to open source projects for absolutely no financial compensation. We want people who love coding so much they do it after work and on the weekends. We are willing to pay below market average for said rock stars.

Re: Craigslist Is Ugly, Janky, Old School, and Unbeatable

#158

Network effect, reliability, free, anonymous, ability to run without JavaScript. If Craigslist decided to modernize today, they could potentially disrupt the state of things on the internet. Facebook is trying to move in on their territory for sure. Unfortunately, I don't think they will. If a new-kid-on-the-block could offer anonymity, reliability, and free regional market based transactions, with preferably integra…

> ability to run without JavaScript. Genuinely asking - is that still an important quality as of today?

In the sense that no JS = better performance on slower PCs - yes, I'd say that's a selling point.

My 70+ parents just listed and sold dozens of items in their spring cleaning - first time they used CL and they did it without my help. They might have had more problems if CL was "jazzed up".

Re: Craigslist Is Ugly, Janky, Old School, and Unbeatable

#159

I find it interesting that there's a general undertone that CL is being "honorable" by choosing to not make more profit. I have no doubt Craig's intentions were honorable, but in reality, his refusal to make money to fund the site's innovation is hurting society. His users are screaming "TAKE MY MONEY AND MAKE THE SITE (MY LIFE) BETTER", but he refuses to do so and everyone is worse off because of it! In a way, it's…

> I have no doubt Craig's intentions were honorable, but in reality, his refusal to make money to fund the site's innovation is hurting society. His users are screaming "TAKE MY MONEY AND MAKE THE SITE (MY LIFE) BETTER", but he refuses to do so and everyone is worse off because of it!

Wrong. So many useful sites have been ruined because someone decided to hire a bunch of MBA's to make it better (and increase profit). It's successful, and it's wonderful. Just leave it alone. I can't deny the possibility of laziness (from what I've heard of Craig I very much doubt it), but it is certainly not selfish.

> He refuses money which, in essence, equates to refusing to deliver value

Ha! quite a ridiculous statement there.

Re: Craigslist Is Ugly, Janky, Old School, and Unbeatable

#160
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you! it is actually enlightening :) I think it's a little bit awkward to not use put, patch, delete... I wonder however if my server must follow the same technique, if not how to wire a delete endpoint to handle a form post and so on. I'll try to handle a form using only get and post sometime just to see how it works. Thank you!

Well you just made me feel old. For put/patch/delete you can just as easily wire different options to different URL's. We had URL's like /Foo/Delete?43. It may be awkward in a particular framework but it's about as simple as things get. I've always hated put/patch/delete because it tends to result in data centric UI's instead of workflow centric ones.

Here it is https://github.com/viniciusCamargo/express-crud-barebone here is my try on this approach to server requests. Any suggestion would be welcome! :)
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