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Apple Said to Work on Mac Chip That Would Lessen Intel Role

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Re: Apple Said to Work on Mac Chip That Would Lessen Intel Role

#151

Post by true_religion »

wmf wrote: post #58
r00fus wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why so? A Mac is a very high ASP item - why not, for example allow iOS apps to run in macOS (using the ARM processor). Ultimately, the 2016 MBPs are a great example of why Apple needs to divest from Intel. The poor timing for Kaby Lake mobile processors and lack of low-power RAM were both Apple's reasons stated when the topic of "the MBP isn't keeping up with the competition" arises. And who's to say that macOS.next…

why not, for example allow iOS apps to run in macOS That's not what the article is talking about and it's a bad idea for UX reasons (no touchscreen). And who's to say that macOS.next will be anything similar to the current macOS? Don't even go there; a vocal minority of Mac users including me do not want anything like that. And getting back to the article, if the OS is radically different then presumably it doesn't n…

> That's not what the article is talking about and it's a bad idea for UX reasons (no touchscreen).

Windows 10 Apps seem to have bridged the divide between mobile and desktop, and run fine on both.

It wasn't instant, Windows has been trying to bring this divide closer since Windows 8... and after so long they're pretty much succeeded with the Surface tablet/laptop.

Re: Apple Said to Work on Mac Chip That Would Lessen Intel Role

#152

Post by ClassyJacket »

_s wrote: post #142
ClassyJacket wrote: post #129

Interesting. The article says that Apple is considering an ARM co -processor, not a replacement for the Intel CPU. I have no doubts at all that Apple have at least had extensive internal discussion and testing about this. In fact, I believe they've probably done extensive internal discussion and testing about replacing the Intel one altogether, but can't get there yet. It'd give Apple more control over their device d…

That's actually a interesting point - I wonder if it's possible to license the Thunderbolt tech in some way, and have it hooked up to the ARM Chip; something like what Asus does to give AMD thunderbolt: http://www.eteknix.com/asus-give-am3-boards-thunderbolt-supp... Saying that - and I hope someone corrects me here if I'm wrong, I was under the impression that Apple & Intel jointly created Thunderbolt (or perhaps it…

I almost posted that link too, but according to this comment, that product was cancelled and never released because Intel refused: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/539kvq/will_amd_cpusmo...

There's still a mention of an expansion card on their site:

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboard-Accessory/ThunderboltEX-...

But it's only compatible with ASUS motherboards that already have Thunderbolt. So I'm not sure what the point of it is (just to upgrade from ThunderBolt 2.0 to 3.0 maybe?), and as far as I can tell... still requires intel.

So as far as I'm aware, no product has ever released with Thunderbolt that doesn't use an Intel CPU (and even then, only higher-end ones).

Licensing aside, it may be a technical issue - ThunderBolt is an extension of PCI-express, which just isn't part of the ARM design. I'm not sure how feasible it would be to add it.

Re: Apple Said to Work on Mac Chip That Would Lessen Intel Role

#153

Post by 95014_refugee »

ben_jones wrote: post #114
ChuckMcM wrote: post #108

It has been interesting to watch the ARM ecosystem unfold. Sort of like seeing a levy breach where just a trickle of water starts flowing over it and then more and more and more. Apple has the resources and the motivation to build a "desktop" 64 bit ARM processor. The history here is also interesting. After debuting the Macintosh in 1984, and getting into fights with Motorola over what should be in the next generatio…

It's really interesting how the historical strengths of companies can persist even after decades of evolution. If the people are coming and going, how is this institutionalized success being cultivated and maintained?

At least part of it is that the people aren't coming and going.

When new, key players arrive they're attracted and vetted by the existing community. And that community is well populated with folks that have long tenure.

There are plenty of folks at Apple in key technical positions with 10+ years at the company, and not a few with more than 20.

Re: Apple Said to Work on Mac Chip That Would Lessen Intel Role

#154

Post by sundvor »

runjake wrote: post #87
5ilv3r wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would probably be less power efficient than just running a single core alone at reduced clock.

Which is why the Atom was discontinued, IIRC: the mainline chips power efficiency had been reduced enough to make the Atom much less viable.

I think you meant the mainline's efficiency increased. :)

Re: Apple Said to Work on Mac Chip That Would Lessen Intel Role

#156

Post by melling »

jsheard wrote: post #115
xenadu02 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple's de-investment in macOS Citation needed. "We love the Mac and are as committed to it, in both desktops and notebooks, as we ever have been." http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/fea...

Actions speak louder than words, and it's been 3 years and 1 month since the Mac Pro saw any action.

They upgrade macOS every year. New iMacs should be out in March or April. Sure, something is wrong with the Mac Pro, but the overall Mac investment is still strong, perhaps a little slow at the moment.

Re: Apple Said to Work on Mac Chip That Would Lessen Intel Role

#157

Post by icanhackit »

Spooky23 wrote: post #140
jsheard wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actions speak louder than words, and it's been 3 years and 1 month since the Mac Pro saw any action.

I think Ben Thompson had the best take on this. Something was fucked up bad in the product, and they aren't budgeted to make the necessary capital investment so soon to dig out a marginal product that nobody buys anyway.

> [...] to dig out a marginal product that nobody buys anyway

I wonder if they could expand the Pro desktop to be for serious gamers as well as dev's, videographers, animators etc. It'd be interesting to see what Razor and Alienware make on their systems - could it be enough to justify a presence in the high-end desktop market?

As for bringing gamers to the platform, Apple already has experience with this...from the losing side at least. Originally Halo was meant for the Mac however Microsoft purchased Bungie in 2000 and much like GoldenEye for the N64, Halo was the game that sold enough Xboxes to make the platform solid. Apple would similarly need some top-tier titles to encourage people to embrace an expensive desktop.

Apple's Anobit acquisition seems to be what's giving it the edge in the NVMe arena. They have experience with quiet cooling solutions. The touch bar would be good for key-mapping in games. Back-lit keyboards are their jam. They have a serious investment in Imagination Technologies Group who are behind the PowerVR architectures. Smaller, more reliable PSUs. Their austere industrial design is second to none and deeply contrasting to the garish Razor and Alienware designs.

It would come down to whether there's money to be made in the area, and I suspect most serious gamers build their own systems.

Re: Apple Said to Work on Mac Chip That Would Lessen Intel Role

#158

Post by ropiku »

wang_li wrote: post #52

This sounds weird. Are they going to have two versions of every executable? One arm and one intel? Or would this low power/power nap mode only support a tiny subset of functionality that apple chooses to include in their OS release?

They sort of do this already with iOS apps during development. iOS Simulator is a simulator, not an emulator so the developing app is compiled and run in native x86.

Re: Apple Said to Work on Mac Chip That Would Lessen Intel Role

#159

Post by mark_l_watson »

joezydeco wrote: post #36
gumby wrote: post #2

There is only one piece of "news" (possibly speculation) in this article: that they may offload some processing to the ARM coprocessor as a transitional step. Interesting idea! But the idea that they have the Mac OS running on their own ARM chips -- Apple shareholders should be annoyed if the company weren't doing this. OS X was running for a long time on Intel before anyone decided to make Intel based Macs.

... or iOS will be graduating up to be the new OS across both mobile and desktop platforms? Earlier today via HN.... http://www.macworld.com/article/3163248/ios/the-future-of-io...

It depends on app and developer tool support. Raskell (Haskell IDE for iOS) and Pythonista (Python IDE for iOS) are fun enough to use. While I would really like IntelliJ and RubyMine on my iPad Pro, I really like macOS.

All this said, I like to see completion. There are some very interesting Window 10 hybrid devices, and the new tiltable desktop Surface look interesting. I hope that there is never a 'winner take all' for consumer devices.

Re: Apple Said to Work on Mac Chip That Would Lessen Intel Role

#160

Post by wmf »

ClassyJacket wrote: post #152
_s wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's actually a interesting point - I wonder if it's possible to license the Thunderbolt tech in some way, and have it hooked up to the ARM Chip; something like what Asus does to give AMD thunderbolt: http://www.eteknix.com/asus-give-am3-boards-thunderbolt-supp... Saying that - and I hope someone corrects me here if I'm wrong, I was under the impression that Apple & Intel jointly created Thunderbolt (or perhaps it…

I almost posted that link too, but according to this comment, that product was cancelled and never released because Intel refused: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/539kvq/will_amd_cpusmo... There's still a mention of an expansion card on their site: https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboard-Accessory/ThunderboltEX-... But it's only compatible with ASUS motherboards that already have Thunderbolt. So I'm not sure what t…

Plenty of ARMs have PCIe, maybe even the A9.
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