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China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

bbc.com

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Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#151

Post by truth_sentinell »

pixelbill wrote: post #149
truth_sentinell wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand but it is really messed up that people even consider that moral. I'm sorry but I can't get any "a bit more" out of killing indefense animals for pleasure. It's just irrational. I believe these thirsty people for blood are just one step away from killing people. There's definitely something wrong in their heads.And the vast majority are white middle-class gun lover (nationalist) people. There must be some…

You obviously didn't do any research into the subject you are talking about, or are just ignoring it, so let me inform you. You know what's even more messed up than killing an animal? Humans suffering and dying due to extreme poverty. Rich hunters come to these countries with lots of money that they pay to the locals and government in order to hunt these animals. The locals then use that money to help conservation ef…

Yes I'm ignorant, but your reasoning is wrong. I already say I understand that, but I refuse to even consider it as a solution as you apparently are. So we should just let these people kill animals at will because it provides a "greater good"? By your same lane of reasoning you should accept paedophiles there (when animal go extinct) because they pay money and help support the community by doing so. Oh, wait, but in this case you can't consider because it's a human live and animals are not as valuable, right?

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#152

Post by ghaff »

wavefunction wrote: post #69
StavrosK wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any example of such a campaign? I'm only aware of things like "drugs aren't cool", which isn't going to sway anyone. I wonder what an effective example of a public awareness campaign looks like.

The US undertook a widespread anti-littering campaign in the 1950s. We of course still have rubbish making it's way onto our road and walk ways but it's nothing compared to much of the rest of the world.

And it's nothing compared to what it used to be like in the US. Many people used to think nothing of just tossing food trash out the window.

The whole anti-littering campaign story is interesting. Apparently the original campaign that everyone (at least everyone over a certain age) remembers with the crying "Indian" (who was actually an Italian-American actor) wasn't really all that effective.

One of the later campaigns that were considered more effective included "Don't Mess with Texas" which featured actors like Chuck Norris.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#153

Post by itissid »

creepydata wrote: post #147
padobson wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am largely uninformed on this topic, so maybe you can answer a dumb question: If ivory is in such demand to the point that it has a large black market, why aren't there more attempts to domesticate and breed elephants for ivory? It seems like with selective breeding you could eventually breed small elements (that don't eat a lot and take up too much space) that have large tusks (and produce a lot of ivory).

The most obvious reason is they are difficult to breed in captivity. They have very long lifespan, long reproductive cycle, low birth rate, and high infant mortality and stillbirth (at least in captivity). They also don't require a lot of space just because they are physically large... They require a large amount of space because they are elephants, so making them physically smaller wouldn't be helpful in reducing th…

Also growing them in labs does not seem feasible. Some are trying though http://pembient.com/

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#154

Post by adamnemecek »

pixelbill wrote: post #149
truth_sentinell wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand but it is really messed up that people even consider that moral. I'm sorry but I can't get any "a bit more" out of killing indefense animals for pleasure. It's just irrational. I believe these thirsty people for blood are just one step away from killing people. There's definitely something wrong in their heads.And the vast majority are white middle-class gun lover (nationalist) people. There must be some…

You obviously didn't do any research into the subject you are talking about, or are just ignoring it, so let me inform you. You know what's even more messed up than killing an animal? Humans suffering and dying due to extreme poverty. Rich hunters come to these countries with lots of money that they pay to the locals and government in order to hunt these animals. The locals then use that money to help conservation ef…

> You obviously didn't do any research into the subject you are talking about, or are just ignoring it, so let me inform you.

Can you provide some research?

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#155

Post by adamnemecek »

mistermann wrote: post #112
truth_sentinell wrote: post #110

Please stop saying that hunting is a solution to preserve animals. It's cruel and non-sensical. Hunters actually say that they help preserving animals. Bitch if you wanted to help you'd be donating, not bragging your vanity and your hollowness on some poor's animal corpse. Saying hunting is a solution is like saying killing poor people is a solution to poverty...[..]

Is it not true that some wealthy hunters pay very big dollars to hunt one big game animal, and that money is then used to assist a large number of other animals?

How do you know where the money is going? You can pick an example of what you consider a successful conservation program in an African country and we can speak about it in very concrete terms.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#156

Post by ulisesrmzroche »

_audakel wrote: post #109
adamnemecek wrote: post #22

You should also check out https://reddit.com/r/babyelephantgifs . We just finished a fundraiser for David Sheldrick Wildlife Trust (an elephant orphanage in Kenya) in collaboration with the UK branch of the organization. But you can still donate! https://www.reddit.com/r/babyelephantgifs/comments/5gm1pl/he... DSWT even made a special video for this fundraiser https://www.youtube.com/embed/ogJprDLQFl8 Just check out f…

If no one told you that elephants had gone extinct, would you, or the average person ever know? Being serious here no down votes plz. I'm all for being nice to animals but tbh untill we can feed "starving kids in Africa" maybe limited resources would be better directed for humans and not elephants (ie enforcing bans / going after black market).

If no one told you there were people starving, neither you or the average person, would notice.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#157

Post by ulisesrmzroche »

Waterluvian wrote: post #17
ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... and apparently one of the most effective strategies was using Yao Ming and Jackie Chan as spokespeople against shark fin consumption!

I remember the day Mr. T convinced me not to do drugs.

Propaganda doesn't work on the good stuff.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#158

Post by pixelbill »

Cyph0n wrote: post #150
pixelbill wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is there any reason in particular that the thought of eating something containing shark fin "disgusted" you, but all of the other animal parts on the menu were just fine? The level of hypocrisy in this thread is incredible. Save the elephants, save the sharks, save the whales; I guess because we think those animals are coolest/cutest they get a pass. Guess what other animals are smart? Pigs. They can do math and m…

Whales are endangered. Sharks are killed solely for their fins. Same goes for elephants and their tusks. Cows and pigs are killed humanely, and used efficiently, with a clear goal in mind: feeding humans. I'm disgusted by shark fin soup because of wastefulness. Why kill a living being if you're just going to use an insignificant part of it? We can argue about this all day, but in the end, it's all relative. Until we…

Whales are not endangered. Some types of whales are endangered. In fact, most Humpback species were removed from the endangered list.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/07/492976575/...

Good for you that you're disgusted by someone else's culture, I'm sure they feel the same way about you. I am just sick of the hypocrisy that so many people show. Ever kill a mouse in a mouse trap? That's a life gone for no reason, you should be ashamed.

Seems like everyone has an opinion on just which animals are okay to kill and which aren't. That's cool if you want to think that, but you are basically saying "I think its okay to kill these animals but not these." and everyone has a different line.

Re: China announces ban on ivory trade by end of 2017

#160

Post by ulisesrmzroche »

matthewmarkus wrote: post #59
pselbert wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public awareness campaigns were key in stopping the ivory trade within the United States (before it was ramped up again by the Chinese). Demand is the real problem, and creating the image that ivory (or shark fin soup) isn't cool is extremely effective.

Calling public awareness campaigns "extremely effective" is a vast simplification of the matter. Public awareness campaigns are good at pushing a substance towards being banned. Once a substance is prohibited, it is subject to the "forbidden fruit" effect, which I've mentioned below [1]. Additionally, if public awareness campaigns continue under a ban, they're likely to induce a "boomerang" effect. For instance, the…

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/tables/trends/ci...
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