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How can I avoid my MacBook Pro giving me minor shocks?

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Re: How can I avoid my MacBook Pro giving me minor shocks?

#151
post #150
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where there is no ground pin, North American power supplies must meet UL1310/CSA No.223 So, as far as I can tell, with a brief skim of the standard, a class 2 device should have no more than 0.5 mA leakage current, right? I just measured the leakage from my macbookpro through my body to ground and it's about 50 μA. Well within the limits. So I guess that's why they never did anything about it. Still amazing that yo…

Depends on the 'bandwidth' of the signal and the test equipment and the individual. Generally consider many non-medical measurements below 025mA suspect, as few design engineers make an effort to understand the various frequency components of the voltage and current leakage signals, and/or understand the effects to the signal of instrument impedances. Have had several discussions with Mr.Pete Perkins (he sits on seve…

Need to correct some stuff.

Class 2 (arabic numeral) is for limited power sources, regardless of construction class.

Class II (roman numeral) indicates a construction class where safety cannot be dependent on a ground bond.

Class I (roman numeral) indicates safety is dependent on a reliable ground bound.

Class I equipment, depending on the scoped end-use equipment safety standard, can have up to 25mA of leakage.

Class II equipment, depending on the end-use environment, can be limited to 0.25mA of available touch leakage.

A good reference for Class 2 and 3 equipment is the UL5085-x series (same as CSA No66.x).

For the EU, there are no harmonized standards in the Low Voltage Directive that have an equivalent Class 2/3 construction, although there are several safety standards that address requirements for 'inherently limited' power sources.

Re: How can I avoid my MacBook Pro giving me minor shocks?

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose a neutral line with a nonzero voltage could be called "dirty", but not in the traditional noise sense.

That still doesn't cause zaps unless you were living in the Edison days or something.

That's exactly what caused minor zaps on older equipment that has a metal case connected to the neutral line.

Re: How can I avoid my MacBook Pro giving me minor shocks?

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should clarify that the reports indicated that the shock originated from the hand touching the handle.

I guess I should go further: some vacuum cleaners have to have a ground connection in the hose, to try to discharge the dust. If they removed it for unrelated reasons, they probably lowered the overall quality of the product overall.

To Shark's defense, I haven't seen too many non-commercial/consumer vacuums with grounded plugs.

Re: How can I avoid my MacBook Pro giving me minor shocks?

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like I said, it was otherwise, an excellent vacuum. Any how, I know about Lenovo's Superfish and recently its attempts to block Linux installs, but I am still a die-hard Thinkpad user because these are very large organizations where all it takes is one single person's oversight to cause a mistake.

They didn't "attempt to block Linux", they just shipped hardware without a Linux driver. And later released a workaround to make the hardware work in a slower, more power consuming backwards compatibility mode so Intel can continue not properly supporting the hardware in Linux. But sure, it was totally "Lenovo blocking Linux".

I'm afraid you're misguided here.

Lenovo initially released a BIOS with a goto statement added to jmp out of the disk controller mode setting (which is normally present and allows the user to change back to AHCI mode). Reverse engineers on the Lenovo forums discovered this modification while studying the disassembly.

Then, one user patched the BIOS and manually reflashed it using an SPI flasher and some soldering, and Linux worked just fine by detecting the drive.

Yes, the ideal solution is that Intel gives specs to OSS devs to build a driver (or even builds on themselves), but the path of least resistance is to have Lenovo unblock that BIOS setting, which amounts to changing one line of code, or 15 minutes of one engineer's time.

Re: How can I avoid my MacBook Pro giving me minor shocks?

#155
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to be careful with isolation transformers because there is one gotcha... the ground pin normally passes through to earth. I've witnessed someone blow up a nice $5000 Agilent oscilloscope before I could stop them because they didn't understand how to use an IT and plugged the scope into it so they could probe AC. Bad news, you're supposed to plug your test device into the IT not the scope because the BNC conn…

Humorous demonstration of the same mistake: https://youtu.be/sI5Ftm1-jik?t=2m20s

I can't tell, the second boom where he holds the resistor in place was that on purpose? If so holy shit that's a dangerous way to make the point. If it was also an accident then he is lucky to be alive since he doesn't seem to know what he is doing.

I know this video is supposed to be funny, but I couldn't bring myself to laugh. Too many people die making the same mistakes.

Re: How can I avoid my MacBook Pro giving me minor shocks?

#156
Maybe a stupid question, but why is the case grounded at all (I mean as in "put on a common zero potential", not as in "connected to earth")? I imagine it is convenient to use the case as common ground, but it seems wierd. Is is unavoidable production-wise?

Re: How can I avoid my MacBook Pro giving me minor shocks?

#158
post #74
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laptops are indeed powered off of DC, which means that there will be a constant voltage measured across the positive and negative pins of the MagSafe plug. However, the voltage measured from either pin to ground might very well fluctuate. Without the grounding pin on the power supply, the DC side of the supply may 'float' with respect to earth ground. If you plot the voltages measured from each pin to ground, it prob…

Right, so there's no relative phase change between negative and positive terminals but there is a phase change between the terminals and ground (which can be interpreted as a frequency relative to ground)? And since I'm grounded I experience that frequency? Interesting. Is there a relation between the "float frequency" and the AC freqency? Is it the same because of how commutators work?

I suspect that the float frequency is generally equal to the AC frequency, but I suppose it may be possible for it to be some subharmonic of the switching frequency, assuming you've got a switching power supply.

Re: How can I avoid my MacBook Pro giving me minor shocks?

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and scary to think that two-prong outlets and appliances are legal anywhere In Japan, two prong outlets make up the vast majority of sockets, it kinda sucks.

I don't think I've ever seen a three-prong outlet in Japan (maybe only new installations?), but "earth screws" are quite common (any room prepared for an air conditioner will have one at least) http://www.hakusui-trading.co.jp/safety/img/img02.jpg

They're starting to become more common in newer apartments. For some reason my apartment has one outlet panel with two of the three-prong outlets, but the rest are two-prong. Except for the air conditioner and laundry machine sockets, which have the earth screw like you described.

Re: How can I avoid my MacBook Pro giving me minor shocks?

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That still doesn't cause zaps unless you were living in the Edison days or something.

That's exactly what caused minor zaps on older equipment that has a metal case connected to the neutral line.

How old are we talking about? That sort of shit hasn't been happening for ages.
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