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Smoking “causes hundreds of DNA changes”

bbc.com

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Re: Smoking “causes hundreds of DNA changes”

#151

Post by striking »

zeveb wrote: post #134
quesera wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chewing tobacco does bad things.

I wonder if that's due to the other stuff typically added to chewing tobacco. It'd be interesting if tobacco could be safer, but isn't, because the manufacturers don't want to incur the expense and anti-tobacco folks want to keep people from smoking at all, not make it safer (c.f. vaping, which is — I think — basically harmless and yet is banned as much as smoking is).

According to the American Cancer Society:

> The most harmful cancer-causing substances in smokeless tobacco are tobacco-specific nitrosamines.

> Cancers linked to the use of smokeless tobacco include:

  * Mouth, tongue, cheek, and gum cancer
  * Cancer in the esophagus
  * Pancreatic cancer
You can also get other kinds of mouth and tooth problems, and of course nicotine is still a definite health risk.

If there were a way to make tobacco healthy, I think the manufacturers would have spared no expense to do so, because the death of a customer prevents them from spending more money on what is sold.

(No idea about anti-vaping people, though.)

Re: Smoking “causes hundreds of DNA changes”

#152

Post by dekhn »

Gatsky wrote: post #27

This has some legal implications. You can now prove fairly conclusively that your lung cancer came from smoking. I wonder if it will lead to a new wave of tobacco litigation. I think even Fisher would be convinced [1]. [1] https://priceonomics.com/why-the-father-of-modern-statistics...

Proof of smoking causing cancer was established a long time ago entirely without DNA evidence. I don't think convincing Fisher is/was important: there are several cases where he used his big brain to rationalize things that we clearly know are false.

Re: Smoking “causes hundreds of DNA changes”

#153

Post by ambicapter »

qb45 wrote: post #113

Trivia: Polonium-210 in tobacco contributes to many of the cases of lung cancer worldwide. Most of this polonium is derived from lead-210 deposited on tobacco leaves from the atmosphere; the lead-210 is a product of radon-222 gas, much of which appears to originate from the decay of radium-226 from fertilizers applied to the tobacco soils. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polonium#Tobacco

Why is there radium in the fertilizer?

Re: Smoking “causes hundreds of DNA changes”

#154

Post by zeveb »

msimpson wrote: post #86
ommunist wrote: post #60

A significant amount of the shredded brown innards of most modern cigarettes is a paper product called "reconstituted tobacco" or "homogenized sheet tobacco," which is made from a pulp of mashed tobacco stems and other parts of the tobacco leaf that would otherwise go to waste. Manufacturers spray and impregnate reconstituted tobacco paper with nicotine and other substances lost during the process, along with as many…

I've heard this argument before. The claim that "clean" tobacco smoke is not carcinogenic and only the additives are to blame. Well, hate to burst your bubble, but when you burn tobacco--additives or not--you are creating hydrocarbons like benzene, bezopyrene, and butane. All of which are carcinogenic and will cause mutation in human cells upon contact. You cannot remove these hydrocarbons from tobacco as they are on…

Of course, that's all also true of woodsmoke, and while some (IMNSHO, deluded) people are trying to ban fires, charcoal cooking &c., the societal consensus right now is that it's okay.

Re: Smoking “causes hundreds of DNA changes”

#155

Post by JoeAltmaier »

ambicapter wrote: post #153
qb45 wrote: post #113

Trivia: Polonium-210 in tobacco contributes to many of the cases of lung cancer worldwide. Most of this polonium is derived from lead-210 deposited on tobacco leaves from the atmosphere; the lead-210 is a product of radon-222 gas, much of which appears to originate from the decay of radium-226 from fertilizers applied to the tobacco soils. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polonium#Tobacco

Why is there radium in the fertilizer?

Naturally-occurring? Bananas have radioactive potassium for instance. Somehow the biological process (banana plant/animal digestion) must concentrate it.

Re: Smoking “causes hundreds of DNA changes”

#156

Post by searine »

ambicapter wrote: post #153
qb45 wrote: post #113

Trivia: Polonium-210 in tobacco contributes to many of the cases of lung cancer worldwide. Most of this polonium is derived from lead-210 deposited on tobacco leaves from the atmosphere; the lead-210 is a product of radon-222 gas, much of which appears to originate from the decay of radium-226 from fertilizers applied to the tobacco soils. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polonium#Tobacco

Why is there radium in the fertilizer?

Because phosphorus is a mined resource and radium/uranium/thorium comes along with it.

Re: Smoking “causes hundreds of DNA changes”

#157

Post by searine »

zymhan wrote: post #131
qb45 wrote: post #113

Trivia: Polonium-210 in tobacco contributes to many of the cases of lung cancer worldwide. Most of this polonium is derived from lead-210 deposited on tobacco leaves from the atmosphere; the lead-210 is a product of radon-222 gas, much of which appears to originate from the decay of radium-226 from fertilizers applied to the tobacco soils. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polonium#Tobacco

Would organic tobacco avoid the issue of Polonium then?

No, mined phosphorus has radioactive elements in it.

Mining and it's by products are perfectly "organic".

Re: Smoking “causes hundreds of DNA changes”

#158

Post by searine »

qb45 wrote: post #144
zymhan wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would organic tobacco avoid the issue of Polonium then?

That's an interesting question because it's the first time I hear about radium in artificial fertilizers. Will need to dig into these Wikipedia sources. That tobacco contains lead and polonium had been known for decades, but I used to think that it originated from the decay of natural atmospheric radon and these plants just had some unusual tendency to accumulate heavy metals. Maybe I should put my tinfoil hat on and…

The USDA Organic label allows for mined phosphate and potassium to be used on organic farms.

Re: Smoking “causes hundreds of DNA changes”

#159

Post by qb45 »

searine wrote: post #157
zymhan wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would organic tobacco avoid the issue of Polonium then?

No, mined phosphorus has radioactive elements in it. Mining and it's by products are perfectly "organic".

Most mining products are very much inorganic, oil being a notable exception ;)

Re: Smoking “causes hundreds of DNA changes”

#160

Post by maxerickson »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #155
ambicapter wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is there radium in the fertilizer?

Naturally-occurring? Bananas have radioactive potassium for instance. Somehow the biological process (banana plant/animal digestion) must concentrate it.

The banana plant extracts potassium from the soil and deposits it in the banana, but it doesn't do anything to change the isotopic ratio, the makeup of the potassium in the banana will match the makeup of the potassium in the soil.

The plant might put a higher percentage of potassium in the fruit than exists in the soil, or it might not. So it isn't clear if it concentrates it (it certainly makes it more appealing to consume it).

I'm not sure if that matches your meaning or not.

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