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General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

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Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#151

Post by jacquesm »

robrenaud wrote: post #107
jacquesm wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are extending 'their website and business' into private property. That's a direct conflict without resolution, I confidently predict nothing will change and this is just window-dressing. Yes indeed, Airbnb can do what they want with their property, namely their website and business, and their customers property is not their business. > if you don't like it then they even outline what you can do in the linked art…

This means that you believe AirBNB will never ban a host for racism?

No, it means they will ban a couple of hosts to 'set an example' and then move on because there is no money in getting rid of hosts short of the most horrible (and probably press-worthy) cases.

This is a typical case of CYA.

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#152

Post by jacquesm »

foldr wrote: post #96
jacquesm wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. But the more likely outcome is that people will simply continue to do what they do until they get kicked off and that every wanna-be renter of some Airbnb listed property is going to claim 'discrimination' from now on when they are refused.

>But the more likely outcome is that people will simply continue to do what they do until they get kicked off So, that would be successful enforcement of the policy.

Yes, if it happens immediately. But most likely they'll be doing it for a long time, possibly years before something will be done about it and more often than not those cases will involve Airbnb getting bad press (which is what gave rise to this whole thing in the first place):

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/20/airbnb-sued-for-allegedly-ign...

Or did you think they came up with this because they thought it was a good idea to tell people who they can invite into their homes?

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#153

Post by jacquesm »

rokhayakebe wrote: post #144
jacquesm wrote: post #47

Airbnb can do whatever they want in property they own/lease. However since they 'share' (funny word that) people's private homes they will have to live with the fact that those people will refuse guests for whatever reasons they feel like, this is the flip side of the coin of not having a relationship where they are in control (employer, employee, owner of the premises). Airbnb wants to have its cake and eat it too,…

Wrong logic. This is the VERY reason we have societies so that we can agree to certain standards (laws). Laws cannot stop anyone from doing anything, they just exist so you understand there are consequences to certain actions. If we follow your logic everything will be left as is and we'll have anarchy.

No, Airbnb is flouting the law left right and center but will hide behind it when it suits their purpose.

This whole affair is simply to avoid some bad press, not to make any sweeing changes in Airbnb policies. Now they can point to their TOS and say 'see, it wasn't us', kick out the occasional host that makes them a target for bad press and continue business as usual.

A real change would be to:

(1) force hosts to accept all guests, without any kind of ability on the part of the host to decline guests

and

(2) to not show the guest details until the person shows up to receive the key.

Anything short of that is simply window dressing.

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#154

Post by paulcole »

tomohawk wrote: post #92
Vintila wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Airbnb can do what they want with their property, namely their website and business. If you don't like it then they even outline what you can do in the linked article. This knife cuts both ways.

This is not the problem. The problem is that Airbnb is making demands on what people do or don't do with their own homes far beyond providing bed and/or breakfast. They're making demands about how people think. My head is not their property. My home is not their property. It's improper and intolerant of them to make these kinds of demands. In fact, it's a form of totalitarianism to not do business with anyone who doe…

Would you really want to respect the rules of someone's home if their rules were "no blacks"?

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#155

Post by paulcole »

JBReefer wrote: post #149
empath75 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sort of surprising how many people on hacker news apparently want the right to be racist.

I want the right to be racist. I'm not a bigot- my girlfriend is Hispanic, I'm from a majority black neighborhood, my parents are gay, etc. But thoughts and words should never be forbidden. That's basically the whole point of liberalism. You're free to be someone that pisses me off.

You're welcome to be racist, but as a business owner, you're not welcome to discriminate based on your racist beliefs.

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#156

Post by JBReefer »

paulcole wrote: post #155
JBReefer wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want the right to be racist. I'm not a bigot- my girlfriend is Hispanic, I'm from a majority black neighborhood, my parents are gay, etc. But thoughts and words should never be forbidden. That's basically the whole point of liberalism. You're free to be someone that pisses me off.

You're welcome to be racist, but as a business owner, you're not welcome to discriminate based on your racist beliefs.

Certainly true, I fully agree

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#157

Post by hunter2_ »

GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #126
jacquesm wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. But the more likely outcome is that people will simply continue to do what they do until they get kicked off and that every wanna-be renter of some Airbnb listed property is going to claim 'discrimination' from now on when they are refused.

A careful reading of your phrasing suggests that you're saying that the only people who are refused service from an Airbnb host are also in the category of people whom discrimination laws protect.

The categories that discrimination laws protect do include all people. The race category includes anyone with a race, the gender category includes everyone with a gender, etc. The protected categories are not the minorities. A guest can claim "the host seems to not like men" when both the host and the guest are men, and discrimination laws are invoked. It sounds silly in this context, but in a hiring context where a male manager prefers a female for an open position, a male applicant is being discriminated against.

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#158

Post by kgwgk »

arabGuy wrote: post #32
zeroer wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm totally ignorant. What does "do the ramadan" entail for you? Can you just continue to refuse to rent to Tunisians and Moroccans? Does AirBnB have any way to detect that? Does AirBnB have recourse against guests who leave the apartment trashed? Insurance, etc.? I wouldn't rent to people who would trash my place, either.

>What does "do the ramadan" entail for you? Basically you feast all day and eat big at night and in the morning. And best case they look at you funny and take a moralistic tone about your haram behavior and worst case, well there is a lot of different worst case scenario when it comes to those folks. I don't want them to leave me a bad review because they are bitter about my "haram" behavior >Does AirBnB have recours…

> Basically you feast all day and eat big at night and in the morning.

I guess you meant that you fast during the day and feast at night.

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#159

Post by Canada »

dmurray wrote: post #147
Canada wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, though I think this is a dick move: "If you cancel your account as a guest, any future reservations you have will be refunded according to the hosts' cancellation policy." So, if you don't agree to this demand by AirBnB that wasn't on the table when you agreed to your booking, then you just lose your money. If AirBnB was fair about this then it would let the user off the hook and pay out any cancellation fees/c…

It looks like you can "decline the commitment" but not exercise "the option to cancel your account" according to the language on the announcement. So I think they will let you honour existing bookings without agreeing to the new commitment.

You may be right. The wording is ambiguous on whether declining requires cancelation or not. Anyone seen the UI of the agreement dialog yet?

Re: General questions about the Airbnb Community Commitment

#160

Post by foldr »

jacquesm wrote: post #152
foldr wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But the more likely outcome is that people will simply continue to do what they do until they get kicked off So, that would be successful enforcement of the policy.

Yes, if it happens immediately. But most likely they'll be doing it for a long time, possibly years before something will be done about it and more often than not those cases will involve Airbnb getting bad press (which is what gave rise to this whole thing in the first place): http://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/20/airbnb-sued-for-allegedly-ign... Or did you think they came up with this because they thought it was a good id…

No-one expects this policy to be enforced completely successfully, but no law or rule against discrimination ever is. I see no reason why it could not make a positive difference.

As to your final question, why so cynical? I imagine Airbnb came up with this when they recognized that discriminatory behavior by hosts was a serious problem. I doubt that Airbnb are secretly in favor of racism and doing this for some other reason.

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