American Children Are Drowning in Self-Esteem • Hacker News Board

Re: American Children Are Drowning in Self-Esteem

#151

Post by analog31 » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 4:29 AM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #4

If self-esteem is so high, why is suicide so common? Giving someone self-esteem doesn't mean letting them whine all the time. Your swimming instructors saying “C’mon dude, stop complaining, let’s get on with it!” IS giving the kid self-esteem! Teaching many ways to add is important because not all kids are going to be able to learn the same way at that age. Different methods are going to "click" for different student…

They are under phenomenal pressure. Everything is more competitive, and they are under a barrage of ratings and selection processes.

Endless standardized tests. There was one standardized test when I was a kid -- an intelligence test -- and my parents never showed me the results. I took the ACT and SAT, but they seemed much less critical to getting into a decent college.

Grades seem much more critical today, due to competition for slots and scholarships in the more prestigious colleges.

Ranking systems, such as who gets to skip a grade in what subject.

Competitive selection processes, such as who gets into the youth orchestra, and which level of the youth orchestra.

Increased pressure to attend college, and to major in a short list of subjects that are associated with lucrative jobs.

Mountains of homework, yet we're also told that kids should learn how to "code" and to build up their "resume" for college admissions, oh and maybe also start a business. I learned to code in the ample spare time that I had because I had relatively little homework.

I would not survive being a kid today.

Re: American Children Are Drowning in Self-Esteem

#152

Post by sbuttgereit » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 4:32 AM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #64

sp332 wrote: post #4

If self-esteem is so high, why is suicide so common? Giving someone self-esteem doesn't mean letting them whine all the time. Your swimming instructors saying “C’mon dude, stop complaining, let’s get on with it!” IS giving the kid self-esteem! Teaching many ways to add is important because not all kids are going to be able to learn the same way at that age. Different methods are going to "click" for different student…

They don't have self-esteem but exactly the opposite. They are in constant need of external validation to feel good about themselves. A person with real self-esteem doesn't need to be praised all the time.

This. Self-esteem develops from personal achievement, not external praise. When you see the results of your actions and those actions have produced positive results, you gain that sense of achievement even if others don't recognize it.

This is the big miss from the self-esteem advocate crowds... the ones that do the participation trophies. They aren't creating self-esteem with worthless praise and merit-less awards... they're creating a dependency on the praise of others and that's not healthy: it creates the opposite of esteem when not fulfilled.

Re: American Children Are Drowning in Self-Esteem

#153

Post by hackuser » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 4:38 AM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #64

sp332 wrote: post #4

If self-esteem is so high, why is suicide so common? Giving someone self-esteem doesn't mean letting them whine all the time. Your swimming instructors saying “C’mon dude, stop complaining, let’s get on with it!” IS giving the kid self-esteem! Teaching many ways to add is important because not all kids are going to be able to learn the same way at that age. Different methods are going to "click" for different student…

They don't have self-esteem but exactly the opposite. They are in constant need of external validation to feel good about themselves. A person with real self-esteem doesn't need to be praised all the time.

> A person with real self-esteem doesn't need to be praised all the time.

True. And from what I understand, adults get that self-esteem from being given unconditional love as children, when they don't have the capacity to provide it to themselves.

Re: American Children Are Drowning in Self-Esteem

#154

Post by quadrangle » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 4:42 AM UTC

dwaltrip wrote: post #139

quadrangle wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's obvious that there are trends in large picture stuff that drive this stupidity. I get that. It's still stupid. If you find yourself in a position where it's expensive to make sure text can display without JavaScript, then I'd agree that the situation is not your fault. Whoever finds themselves in that situation could rightly complain about how stupid other people are for letting it come to this. Sure, have…

You haven't addressed the core argument: The vast majority of people (more than 99%) don't disable javascript, so from the perspective of the key decision makers (project leads, managers, CTOs, etc), it's a complete non-issue. They consider the usage/non-usage of javascript to be largely irrelevant.

Sorry but appeal to popularity can justify a pragmatic decision not to DO anything about a stupid situation, but it doesn't make it non-stupid.

Just accept saying "yeah, it's idiotic that Javascript is needed in X framework just to show text, but it's not a priority for most people to fix it" instead of trying to say that it isn't a shitty bug.

It's a shitty bug that comes from a stupid bad design, but you can get away with it these days because it affects only a minority of people in practice. That's the simple truth here.

Re: American Children Are Drowning in Self-Esteem

#155

Post by mgalka » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 5:05 AM UTC

alasdair_ wrote: post #118

mgalka wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What country are you from? In my experience Americas fall somewhere in the middle in terms of directness, compared to European countries. I lived in the UK for a few years and found Brits very hard to read / resistant to confrontation. On the other hand, I'm married to a Spaniard, and when I'm over there, it's sometimes a bit uncomfortable how direct and open people are.

Where in the UK did you live? The Scots and Irish can be brutally direct, while a Londoner will take great pains to avoid confrontation (in general).

Yes, you're right. Should have said English. I lived in London.

Re: American Children Are Drowning in Self-Esteem

#156

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 6:45 AM UTC

dwaltrip wrote: post #139

quadrangle wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's obvious that there are trends in large picture stuff that drive this stupidity. I get that. It's still stupid. If you find yourself in a position where it's expensive to make sure text can display without JavaScript, then I'd agree that the situation is not your fault. Whoever finds themselves in that situation could rightly complain about how stupid other people are for letting it come to this. Sure, have…

You haven't addressed the core argument: The vast majority of people (more than 99%) don't disable javascript, so from the perspective of the key decision makers (project leads, managers, CTOs, etc), it's a complete non-issue. They consider the usage/non-usage of javascript to be largely irrelevant.

[deleted]

Re: American Children Are Drowning in Self-Esteem

#157

Post by kbart » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 6:54 AM UTC

skywhopper wrote: post #39

NTDF9 wrote: post #22

What I've noticed common among a lot of Americans is a fear/inhibition of speaking the truth, mostly to not have a confrontation. I witnessed an example of this in a music performance of a teen rock band. In this performance, the band sucked overall. The guitarist didn't know what he was doing. But everybody (guardians, parents, teachers, friends) just keep saying, "Great performance brah, awesome shit, good going gu…

There's a time and a place for critique, and immediately after a performance is neither. Only a jerk with truly low self-esteem would think that it was appropriate to offer unsolicited criticicism of the performance skills of a teenager in a rock band to their face at the performance. If it's their music instructor, maybe. But again, that's not really the place. Next lesson would be the right time and place to get th…

Well, if just after performance you told me: "wow, that was great", then the next time we met: "actually, you sucked guys" (or even worse, tell that behind my back), I would deem you liar and dishonest person. Constructive criticism, especially by close friends and family, is the best outcome imho, while an empty, meaningless praise only causes harm on the long run. I'm from Europe, so it must be a cultural difference.

Re: American Children Are Drowning in Self-Esteem

#158

Post by trylist » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 7:03 AM UTC

tajen wrote: post #104

charlesdm wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Belgium. It's not necessarily the directness that I mind, it's the fact that often people are (excuse my language) full of shit. They say A, but actually mean B. Which is a trait, for example, the British have as well, but one I seem to understand a lot better than when I'm dealing with Americans.

Among "opportunity for improvement" and "a challenge", my preferred wording came from an American war movie: "Boss, we have a situation" was translated in French with "Boss, we have a problem". As if the original movie's character meant there was an interesting "new situation" about natural water cooling the nuclear reactor, while the French translation acknowledged that it could be a problem to have water pouring in…

Hmm, any American would immediately understand that "situation" meant "problem" in this context. To Americans, that is direct. It's not a fluff word avoiding saying "problem", it means "problem".

Re: American Children Are Drowning in Self-Esteem

#159

Post by gluggymug » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 7:11 AM UTC

wernercd wrote: post #146

gluggymug wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't teach kids I assume. I do. I am a judo coach of kids. I think the point is : It is not really up to the parents to be so critical of their kids. They should be supportive and positive. It is really up to the coach to provide the technical feedback and it is more beneficial to assess performance at the next practice when the kids are back in a learning mode. At that point they are mentally ready to practice…

You can be supportive and positive... and honest. Being supportive of shitty performances is dishonest and shitty. Then again... the "parents" of today cry fits if their kid plays like crap and doesn't get some sort of participation award.

A parent telling their child they had a shitty performance is not supportive or positive.

A negative attitude coming from the parent can really upset the child and they won't learn anything from it.

As a coach I can't tell a parent what to say to their kid at home after they have a poor performance but I usually advise them to try cheer their kid up not cut them down.

It is my role as coach to provide the objective criticism not the parent's. It matters where the criticism comes from.

This is a part of the problem with the original article. Parents are too emotionally involved to teach their kids. They think their kid is special and then they constantly compare them against other kids and then they put the parental pressure on to the child. It isn't helping.

Re: American Children Are Drowning in Self-Esteem

#160

Post by Phr0ztByte » Fri, Oct 28, 2016, 9:40 AM UTC

reflexive wrote: post #124

charlesdm wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you an American? I'm European, and maybe this is just personal experience / a personal anecdote, but whenever I've had conversations with an American I found that they tend to always be really excited and then casually ignore any further communication. It's much harder to figure out for me what an American _actually_ means vs say a Belgian or a British person. No point in being an open person if you're only touti…

Maybe this is part of why a lot more popular bands come from the US than from Europe? Not to be glib, but when I lived in Europe I was shocked at how many unknown American bands they would fly out to play at tiny venues (bars, "underground" clubs) every weekend. I asked, don't you have your own unknown bands that rehearse in garages and dorm rooms? It turns out: not so much, not nearly to the level that this exists i…

Band popularity has a lot to do with marketing. If you are looking at the size of European countries they have just as many influential artists as the US. UK and Sweden in particular.