Thousands of California soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses • Hacker News Board

Re: Thousands of California soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses

#151

Post by a3n » Mon, Oct 24, 2016, 2:21 PM UTC

vacri wrote: post #149

a3n wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> deployment to Iraq was not 'defending their country' They served. They were certainly misused and misdeployed, but they served their country, they lost limbs, lives, time and the innocence that most of us enjoy our entire lives, and they deserve respect and support. Not worship; merely respect and support.

Why don't police get treated the same way? They risk life and limb as well, but you don't see unrelated people thanking them for their service, or getting misty-eyed on TV when talking about them. There are abuses by the police, yes, but there are also abuses by the military. Words matter, and if you actually care about people losing their lives and innocence in these wars, then you should totally be on board with no…

There was no mist in my eyes when I suggested that we shouldn't worship soldiers.

Re: Thousands of California soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses

#152

Post by lithos » Mon, Oct 24, 2016, 3:38 PM UTC

mariuolo wrote: post #133

tedunangst wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. They gave the radio operator bonus to the cook (as an example). It's easy to see from the amount it was the radio bonus, and it's easy to see from the service record somebody was a cook, and that was bonus was overpaid. And now they want their money back (which is pretty shitty, given the circumstances). But the amounts of the correct bonus and the given bonus are not unknowable. These aren't bespoke contracts,…

Unless they can show bad faith on the part of the beneficiary, shouldn't whoever authorised the payment be on the hook for it?

The military is very good at doing whatever they want to.

There's a better than good chance they just started docking 100% of his pay without telling them anywhere but their pay stub, then put them in a situation where it takes man-days at a minimum to get answers. It's something that happened to a way too many people that I knew. first one was old navy so ended in a hilarious fist fight(after being without pay for two months from an admin error), second one was new navy so it was a very painful process of working with personnel while they were on 4 hour workdays in shipyard, then there are way too many people that fell into classic bonus blackmail were the navy just beats you down in all directions(socially, finciancilly, and time) after getting disqualified from your job(mast, medical, mental, and family issues all included) (basically if you get bonus of some sort it hangs over your head for a good 4-6 years, and if you do pay it back you're paying it back in docked pay, withheld taxes, and maybe even your bank account. And in the amount that was paid to you before taxes).

Re: Thousands of California soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses

#153

Post by module0000 » Mon, Oct 24, 2016, 3:54 PM UTC

QUFB wrote: post #37

I'm not a veteran, I'm a desk jockey. I didn't like the foreign entanglements we've been involved with over the past 15 years. But that's not the point here. When young men and women volunteer to fight and die for our country, and are made promises by the system, these promises should be honored. This behavior by the California National Guard is disgusting.

The behavior is disgusting indeed. A collection attempt to the wrong type of veteran is doing to result in that veteran categorizing the collector as a kill-on-sight target. Demanding money back from trained killers sounds like a mistake likely to result in unnecessary deaths.

Re: Thousands of California soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses

#154

Post by beachstartup » Mon, Oct 24, 2016, 4:57 PM UTC

brbsix wrote: post #126

beachstartup wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

first, blaming the economically disadvantaged foot soldier or mess hall cook or tank mechanic for the contemporary crimes of the political and economic ruling class has got to be the most morally reprehensible thing i've heard on this topic, and carries nearly psychopathic levels of non-empathy.

Economically disadvantaged members of U.S. armed forces are not in some special moral category. Whatever their motives, they voluntarily joined an organization that initiates force against others on behalf of the political and economic ruling class. They aren't solely responsible for the aforementioned "contemporary crimes", but they aren't innocent either.

and oftentimes, they pay with their lives.

guess that isn't enough for you.

Re: Thousands of California soldiers forced to repay enlistment bonuses

#155

Post by vacri » Mon, Oct 24, 2016, 8:46 PM UTC

a3n wrote: post #151

vacri wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't police get treated the same way? They risk life and limb as well, but you don't see unrelated people thanking them for their service, or getting misty-eyed on TV when talking about them. There are abuses by the police, yes, but there are also abuses by the military. Words matter, and if you actually care about people losing their lives and innocence in these wars, then you should totally be on board with no…

There was no mist in my eyes when I suggested that we shouldn't worship soldiers.

That was all you took away from this? You didn't say it on TV, either. Chances are, I wasn't talking specifically about the one single data point that is 'a3n', but on a broader, societal level.