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We Don’t Simply Get Remote Jobs, We Join Remote Teams

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Re: We Don’t Simply Get Remote Jobs, We Join Remote Teams

#151

Post by justindocanto »

vertex-four wrote: post #119
bad_user wrote: post #94

I work remotely. I'm from Romania and we have a team that's distributed across the country, with some members from other European countries as well. We do have a small office where I live, but it is provided just as a place to come to in case you don't like working from home and I do go to our office almost daily, but most of the team is on the other end of a Gmail/Skype/Slack connection. Today I got tired at 1 PM, g…

That is generally not compatible with the American way of working - especially in the startup scene - where ever second you're not working is considered a second that your competitor companies have over you.

As an american who works just as he does, and have for roughly 10 years, this is simply not true.

Working down to the bone, "every second", will lead to serious burn out. Your mental health suffers, as do your relationships.

I won't make any assumptions about who you are or how you work, but I tend to see this mindset from new blood who wants to get the edge over others. I understand this mindset, as it's very productive - like a short sprint - but it's not sustainable.

If you want to last the whole race, you need to pace yourself.

Re: We Don’t Simply Get Remote Jobs, We Join Remote Teams

#152

Post by rdm42116 »

MarkMc wrote: post #28

I love working remotely because it has allowed me to run my business while travelling around India. But I still feel my work would be more efficient if I was sitting next to my co-workers. There's some intangible quality involving instant feedback, body language and social interaction that would make our communication more direct and engaging. Despite all the advances in technology for working remotely, face-to-face…

I do a mix. Some days I like working remotely. Others I will go into the office.

I think more than anything I just want freedom. I don't want to be locked into 8-5. Some days I want to work late and do stuff during the day (yardwork, appointments). I just want flexibility.

Re: We Don’t Simply Get Remote Jobs, We Join Remote Teams

#153

Post by justindocanto »

ryandrake wrote: post #101
FuNe wrote: post #14

I'm partially remote working (RW) at an organization that is slowly rolling back its RW culture(1). The motto for this goes like 'teams work better if they are collocated, yada, yada'. The real reason is that managers want to feel in control (plus they want to drive away a lot of people by taking RW away). "Culture" is used as a smoke screen for more sinister incentives. (I can say that with confidence because I can…

> The motto for this goes like 'teams work better if they are collocated, yada, yada'. The real reason is that managers want to feel in control (plus they want to drive away a lot of people by taking RW away). Sorry, but I've got to be the party pooper in this thread. I have worked with teams over the years that indeed DO work better co-located, and who ARE more productive when forced to communicate in an open office…

As somebody that remote works most of the time, I will stick my head out and agree that working side by side tends to be my most productive times with co-workers.

Working remotely is great for ones health. Co-working is best for synergy and communication.

It's all about the balance.

Re: We Don’t Simply Get Remote Jobs, We Join Remote Teams

#154

Post by afarrell »

BadassFractal wrote: post #136
vertex-four wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is generally not compatible with the American way of working - especially in the startup scene - where ever second you're not working is considered a second that your competitor companies have over you.

A startup is a temporary organization searching for a repeatable and scalable business model. Speed and agility are your only advantages. Working all the time is practically essential for most startups. Are we seriously saying that startups should be comfortable 9 to 5 jobs? There are hundreds of millions of jobs out there that will give you that lifestyle, why complain about that exception where it is actually sensi…

The advantages of a 9 to 5 job are that:

1) It gives you time to reflect on whether the direction you are going makes sense and is aligned with others.

2) It gives you time to sleep and exercise, which makes you more focused and effective at work.

3) It removes the illusion that you can ignore planning/reflection and just pour more hours into something in order to make it successful.

4) If you are demanding people work really bad hours as a matter of course, then that scares experienced hands away. Given that most employees won't see any payout from an exit, those with experience will demand to be paid in cash and will demand that much more if you expect long hours.

Re: We Don’t Simply Get Remote Jobs, We Join Remote Teams

#155

Post by laughfactory »

mordocai wrote: post #130
legitster wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not say this is an accurate view of most US jobs. I have yet to have a job that was not flexible with working hours or working location.

Every single job across industries that I have ever worked at (and i've only worked in the US) has been inflexible on hours and location.

Same here. All my employers have been totally inflexible on hours and location. It's all ass-in-seat, 8-5 or 9-6, kind of work. I dream of being able to do what others describe here: when I get tired, take a nap, have lunch with my kids everyday, etc... always get shit done, but just also be able to adapt work to fit the life I want more precisely.

Re: We Don’t Simply Get Remote Jobs, We Join Remote Teams

#156

Post by pault »

ryandrake wrote: post #101
FuNe wrote: post #14

I'm partially remote working (RW) at an organization that is slowly rolling back its RW culture(1). The motto for this goes like 'teams work better if they are collocated, yada, yada'. The real reason is that managers want to feel in control (plus they want to drive away a lot of people by taking RW away). "Culture" is used as a smoke screen for more sinister incentives. (I can say that with confidence because I can…

> The motto for this goes like 'teams work better if they are collocated, yada, yada'. The real reason is that managers want to feel in control (plus they want to drive away a lot of people by taking RW away). Sorry, but I've got to be the party pooper in this thread. I have worked with teams over the years that indeed DO work better co-located, and who ARE more productive when forced to communicate in an open office…

I think coordination is the key. If someone with authority isn't willing to step up and make sure everyone knows what they're supposed to be doing, things will definitely slow to a crawl and people won't communicate until it's too late. And that team will do better colocated. But a good PM can make a remote team work just as well as a colocated team, in my experience. If you don't have that person, you're just leaving your efficiency up to chance (does the team get along; do they feel like working that day) no matter the work environment you choose.

Edit: I'm not sure "is willing to" is the right phrase. You have to have a brilliant PM, period. I've worked with bad PMs, no PM, and a few great PMs, and it really is night and day. A talented PM can make an organization sing.

Re: We Don’t Simply Get Remote Jobs, We Join Remote Teams

#157

Post by jimmywanger »

elcct wrote: post #56
jimmywanger wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you not read most of my comment? The technology is there, it wasn't ten years ago. Now, it comes down to management setting strict guidelines and enforcing them. What good is it to pay for Jira accounts when nobody uses them? Or what good is it to have Github and everybody ends up hosting their own private repos? That is definitely a management mandate, and logistically, it's a lot easier to manage a group if the…

Then maybe we are not on the same page. I would assume company is already using one or another project tracking tool or distributed source control. I can't think of companies that are not doing this as being relevant.

No, we are not on the same page. The point is not that you're using a project tracking tool or distributed source control.

Btw, Google/Facebook do not use distributed source control, and they are quite relevant.

The point is the communication tools. If you are not accustomed to jumping on chat with somebody with the same comfort as walking over and tapping their shoulder, it doesn't matter if you pay for VC software licenses.

If you talk to somebody in person, and then decide something and act on it, without looping the entire team in on the decision, then remote employees are going to feel like outsiders, even if you are paying money for email software.

Re: We Don’t Simply Get Remote Jobs, We Join Remote Teams

#158

Post by laughfactory »

ChemicalWarfare wrote: post #115
matt_wulfeck wrote: post #16

> In remote team, we get to experience the culture at its most naked form. There is no catered lunch or a hip office with table tennis table. Everything artificial is stripped away. I totally disagree with this. The most naked form of communication is (and IMHO always will be) face to face. I can't tell how many countless times many emails were exchanged before simply speaking face to face solved the problem. Working…

Actually having worked remote for a while now, what I do observe quite a bit is there's way less office politics on the remote teams. One of the reasons is my coworkers "are" their code, emails or talking heads on google hangouts :) Less face-to-face interaction == less politics. Emails vs. "face to face" - there's no need to actually be in a physical proximity for that conversation to take place.

This is a big reason I like remote working (and can't wait to find another job which is remote). I find office life really political and very inefficient. Our team (and others who stop by our area) is very chatty, and there's a ton of political (Game of Thrones level) maneuvering. My experience of remote working is that you're insulated from a lot of that--or at least you're in a lot more control of how distracted you allow yourself to be. Politically there are still stressors from time to time, but at least you're hopefully just judged on your output rather than how many hours you sit in your chair, the car you drive, the length of your commute, how you dress, and whether you shave daily.

Re: We Don’t Simply Get Remote Jobs, We Join Remote Teams

#159

Post by pault »

croon wrote: post #91
pjmlp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell that to managers.

... before it's too late and they can't backtrack because it already cost too much in the transition and their ego can't handle admitting they were wrong.

I've lost track of the number of times I've been hired to fix an outsourced project disaster. I feel like this has burned enough people that I'm not nearly as worried about it as I was 10 years ago. If you make your living doing wordpress sites, though, it's time to retool.

Re: We Don’t Simply Get Remote Jobs, We Join Remote Teams

#160

Post by pjmlp »

pault wrote: post #159
croon wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... before it's too late and they can't backtrack because it already cost too much in the transition and their ego can't handle admitting they were wrong.

I've lost track of the number of times I've been hired to fix an outsourced project disaster. I feel like this has burned enough people that I'm not nearly as worried about it as I was 10 years ago. If you make your living doing wordpress sites, though, it's time to retool.

> I feel like this has burned enough people that I'm not nearly as worried about it as I was 10 years ago.

Europe is still catching up with US in terms of outsourcing, specially from richer countries into the lower wages ones.

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