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Optimism

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Re: Optimism

#151

Post by aninhumer »

tedmiston wrote: post #121
donw wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best advice I received on this topic was that feedback should be actionable, specific, and kind. Actionable and specific mean that the person on the receiving end has a set of concrete actions to take to implement. For example, "get better at programming" isn't specific, and "get a PhD in Computer Science" probably isn't actionable, but "work on improving your ability to write readable code by working through the…

> When giving feedback, some people say that they are brutally honest As someone who prefers giving and receiving terse feedback... I would suggest that there's nothing wrong with brutal honesty for type of people who appreciate receiving it . If I write code and forget to test some specific cases, I would much rather get a code review of "Missing tests for negative numbers, empty string, null" than a longwinded and…

>I would much rather get a code review of "Missing tests for negative numbers, empty string, null" than a longwinded and "nice" version.

Could you give an example of what you're imagining a longwinded nice version would be like? Because this seems mostly fine, just a bit clipped.

All I'd really expect to improve it is something like: "This is mostly fine. It just needs tests for negative numbers, empty strings and null." Adding just a few words validates their work, and more practically, it also clarifies that the criticisms are exhaustive.

Re: Optimism

#152

Post by braythwayt »

aidenn0 wrote: post #133
braythwayt wrote: post #9

Author here. Ask Me Anything.

How does this work for correcting actual systemic issues? If all the negative is temporary, impersonal and specific, how does one notice and correct things that are consistently and generally wrong with oneself?

Consider a salesperson. They make pitch after pitch, each one failing, a series of negative events. Being "pessimistic" does help identify the possibility that they are not selling effectively.

However, Being "optimistic" does not preclude change. The optimistic view is that each such event is driven by the prospective customer's choice (impersonal), is a stand-alone event (temporary), and is only a lost sale (specific).

The optimist is free to explore some options. For one thing, maybe they are selling to the wrong customers? Or perhaps their sales techniques don't fit those customers?

Since the optimist believes these are one-time events, the optimist believes it could go differently tomorrow. That doesn't mean it will magically go differently tomorrow! The optimist believes that they can make some changes and get different results tomorrow.

The pessimist believes that since they are permanently at fault, change is futile. The optimist believes that change is possible.

Now what about the idea that something is generally wrong with the optimist? For example, perhaps they don't listen in general, and this is why they are not selling. Well, "Stop being rude" is difficult to act on. "Listen more..." What does that mean exactly?

The optimist can drill down into specifics. What, specifically is going wrong? Ah, customers don't believe the product suits their needs. We can fix this, do more needs analysis in the qualifying portion of the sales process, and then write proposals in a "where-we-are-today, where=we-want-to-be, gap, how-the-product-forms-a-bridge" format.

So they fix listening in sales. And then they notice a problem in their personal relationships, and they fix listening there too. Lather, rinse, repeat. And perhaps they graduate to fixing a self-absorbption problem.

General problems need an accumulation of specific fixes to conquer, and learned optimism can help.

Re: Optimism

#153

Post by zeveb »

avindroth wrote: post #149

Imagine you are a cyclist. At the end of the 100 miles is a sweet, sweet piece of cake. But the road has uphills and downhills: the cognitive boosters and roadblocks. The optimist only sees the downhills. The pessimist only sees the uphills. The realist sees both, and makes a guess on whether this journey is worthwhile. Is the cake worth the effort? The optimist, while appealing, will soon be met with unexpected uphi…

The engineer hops in car and drives there.

The cynic figures the cake is a lie.

Re: Optimism

#154

Post by zeveb »

PSeitz wrote: post #62

TLDR; To be more optimistic assess good stuff as personal, general, and permanent and negative as impersonal, specific and temporal. Make notes everyday about your assessments and correct them. There is research backing this thesis.

The problem I see with that is what if the good things truly are impersonal, specific and/or temporal; what if the bad things truly are personal, general and/or permanent?

Realistically, sometimes one must realise that one is the problem, not others or circumstances.

Re: Optimism

#155

Post by tedmiston »

morgante wrote: post #139
tedmiston wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When giving feedback, some people say that they are brutally honest As someone who prefers giving and receiving terse feedback... I would suggest that there's nothing wrong with brutal honesty for type of people who appreciate receiving it . If I write code and forget to test some specific cases, I would much rather get a code review of "Missing tests for negative numbers, empty string, null" than a longwinded and…

I think one of the important takeaways from the talk is that even if people say they want brutal feedback they probably don't. More importantly, feedback can be totally honest without compromising it's optimism. > I would much rather get a code review of "Missing tests for negative numbers, empty string, null" than a longwinded and "nice" version I agree that niceness isn't always necessary. Fortunately, that's not w…

This is a totally valid point about my example. Unfortunately for the sake of my argument, it was done by accident (or subconscious).

I have been practicing detaching critical feedback from the person and instead attaching it onto the situation or context for quite a while now. In any form, I think that point is crucial.

Re: Optimism

#156

Post by tedmiston »

aninhumer wrote: post #151
tedmiston wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When giving feedback, some people say that they are brutally honest As someone who prefers giving and receiving terse feedback... I would suggest that there's nothing wrong with brutal honesty for type of people who appreciate receiving it . If I write code and forget to test some specific cases, I would much rather get a code review of "Missing tests for negative numbers, empty string, null" than a longwinded and…

>I would much rather get a code review of "Missing tests for negative numbers, empty string, null" than a longwinded and "nice" version. Could you give an example of what you're imagining a longwinded nice version would be like? Because this seems mostly fine, just a bit clipped. All I'd really expect to improve it is something like: "This is mostly fine. It just needs tests for negative numbers, empty strings and nu…

The structure of what I had in mind was going through a laundry list of aspects of code (functionality, style, structure, functional decomposition, algorithmic efficiency, test coverage, use of libraries, blah blah blah), and making specific positive comments about the things that are already good. Personally I don't glean much value from that i.e., the compliments aren't something I'm concerned with and the feedback isn't something I can act on anyway.

Re: Optimism

#157

Post by metaphorm »

dominotw wrote: post #47
braythwayt wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire point of the presentation was to talk about my journey to the place where I think this comment says far more about you than it does about me.

what does it tell about me? >Those of you who have not had this affliction may question this Do you think there are people out there who don't suffer from 'depression' ? Is depression not common to all of humanity? >I have had many high points in my life, but I also have had many low points Do you think there are people out there who believe they never had any 'low points' in their lives ? Aren't you doing great inju…

dude, what are you even doing?

Re: Optimism

#158

Post by chillacy »

mathgenius wrote: post #88
braythwayt wrote: post #9

Author here. Ask Me Anything.

When pessimism works it leads to action. Hopefully effective action. My concern with the attitude of "oh this is a temporary problem" is that it could lead to apathy. A kind of "waiting for godot" situation.

I've seen pessimism not work. Like "I don't have a good job because I'm a worthless and dumb", which is not temporary (being dumb is a state of being) and personal.

Or I've also seen "I don't have a good job because affirmative action keeps me down / I don't have a good job because employers are biased against me", which is also a permanent.

Probably the best combo for self improvement is personal/specific/temporary, which would be "I don't have a good job because I haven't studied enough for interviews", which suggests a solution.

Re: Optimism

#159

Post by Firadeoclus »

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #90

> It is not controversial to say that our moods affect the explanations we make up for things that happen in our lives. If we are in a good mood and someone smiles at us, we think they like us. If we are in a bad mood, we wonder if they have read some awkward code we just checked in, and if they are laughing at us. It's not controversial to say that our moods can affect our interpretations and decisions, but it is (t…

That's an interesting observation. In poker, if you have a clear and consistent bias other players will move to exploit that bias.

However, it's worth pointing out that poker is a zero sum game if you choose winning as the measure of success. But many situations are not zero sum. There's the possibility that optimism could increase the pot for everyone. Furthermore, enjoying the process can be a reward in itself. If you enjoy playing poker losing does not necessarily equate to failure.

Re: Optimism

#160

Post by ravicious »

tedmiston wrote: post #121
donw wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best advice I received on this topic was that feedback should be actionable, specific, and kind. Actionable and specific mean that the person on the receiving end has a set of concrete actions to take to implement. For example, "get better at programming" isn't specific, and "get a PhD in Computer Science" probably isn't actionable, but "work on improving your ability to write readable code by working through the…

> When giving feedback, some people say that they are brutally honest As someone who prefers giving and receiving terse feedback... I would suggest that there's nothing wrong with brutal honesty for type of people who appreciate receiving it . If I write code and forget to test some specific cases, I would much rather get a code review of "Missing tests for negative numbers, empty string, null" than a longwinded and…

>> When giving feedback, some people say that they are brutally honest

> As someone who prefers giving and receiving terse feedback... I would suggest that there's nothing wrong with brutal honesty for type of people who appreciate receiving it.

It seems to me that you cited the fragment of donw's comment about "brutally honest", but ineffective feedback ("The module you wrote is crap because your code sucks and is hard to maintain.") and then started arguing that some people like receiving terse feedback.

But won't you agree that the example of "brutally honest" feedback wasn't in any way terse and that "brutally honest" doesn't necessarily mean terse?

I find the second part of the "kind" feedback much more terse: "Breaking those big methods and classes into smaller separate objects and functions would help a lot".

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