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Cloud9 Acquired by Amazon

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Re: Cloud9 Acquired by Amazon

#151
post #105

I've discovered C9 while viewing coders working via Livecoding.tv. It's highly interesting how very young developers are using C9, naturally, to code. Something great is happening behind this behavior, it's much more than an online IDE. It feels friction less to develop a website totally online for this kind of developers. Also, for example, I can think many people using PC's on cybercafes prefering C9 to develop. I…

I fail to see how it's advantageous over just having a shell account somewhere free like SDF though. Do young developers just want to interact with everything through the browser?

I think younger developers have zero tolerance for lengthy configuration steps. Whether it's a build system that uses XML and is hard to grok or provisioning cloud services with the terminal, it's seen as a waste of time and ripe for optimization.

Re: Cloud9 Acquired by Amazon

#152
post #105

I've discovered C9 while viewing coders working via Livecoding.tv. It's highly interesting how very young developers are using C9, naturally, to code. Something great is happening behind this behavior, it's much more than an online IDE. It feels friction less to develop a website totally online for this kind of developers. Also, for example, I can think many people using PC's on cybercafes prefering C9 to develop. I…

I fail to see how it's advantageous over just having a shell account somewhere free like SDF though. Do young developers just want to interact with everything through the browser?

Collaborative code editing, for starters.

Re: Cloud9 Acquired by Amazon

#153
I absolutely love the Cloud9 IDE. I've been using the source download to host it directly on my development VM as well as in the cloud (using Digital Ocean and CloudAtCost).

The editor is really nice and I absolutely love the ease of window snapping and tailing log files using the command line panel.

Before Cloud9 I used PHP Storm. Still a very good editor, but I love editing files on cloud hosted machines as I can move from desktop to desktop and continue right where I left off.

Here's a script reference that I use to set it up: https://github.com/medatech/ubuntu-setup-scripts/blob/master...

Re: Cloud9 Acquired by Amazon

#154
post #134
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What if he doesn't want to spend the next 6yrs learning Emacs? From rms's ruminations on Lisp & emacs ( https://www.gnu.org/gnu/rms-lisp.en.html ): >> Multics Emacs proved to be a great success — programming new editing commands was so convenient that even the secretaries in his office started learning how to use it. They used a manual someone had written which showed how to extend Emacs, but didn't say it was a pr…

At the risk of sounding precocious but I doubt a novel programmer today has as much time for a project as the folks had back in the 70s and 80s. Development cycles have gotten much, much shorter. And there are already numerous tools which you have to learn for an efficient workflow, like build and testing tools, code repositories, etc. Every bit of time saved in dealing with your environment rather than the actual pr…

> And there are already numerous tools which you have to learn for an efficient workflow, like build and testing tools, code repositories, etc.

emacs already has interfaces to build and testing tools. It has Magit, the best git interface I've used.

> Remember software has always been about raising productivity, not just of an industry but of the developer himself.

That's why I'm advocating a user-extensible editing environment! That's why I use emacs.

> Eventually we'll look back on programmers using text editors and rsync for development and deployment the same way we look at people developing software in Pascal and BASIC.

We emacs users already look at folks using editors and rsync for development that way: we have TRAMP (https://www.gnu.org/software/tramp/), which enables one to run an editor locally on remote files. One can even run commands on the server a remote file is located on.

There's no reason that elisp can't be written to spin up DigitalOcean droplets, AWS EC2 instances, fire off Lambda code, deploy pods to kubernetes, control a Mesos cluster, &c. &c. &c. And if one does that, one gets all that plus a world-class, best-of-breed text editing environment with millions of lines of code to do just about anything else one might want to do already written.

Or one could spend time trying to extend a proprietary product, running elsewhere, ignoring forty years of experience and improvements. One could try to reinvent the wooden wheel while others are running transcontinental airline service.

That's really how I feel: every day I'm taking a teleporter to the office, and meanwhile I'm watching others talk about how they've noticed that if they rub a pair of sticks together they get pretty warm. I'm not saying that the folks busily reinventing fire are dumb — most definitely not: they're brilliant — but rather that no-one has bothered teaching them all the innovations which have occurred since fire was first invented.

Setting the metaphor aside, our industry seems to do an amazing job of utterly refusing to learn from and develop on the past. Every half-decade or so someone comes along and reinvents things which were truly groundbreaking ideas before I was born. We seem to be stuck repeating 1970s computer science, over and over and over, rather than trying to live in the 2010s.

Re: Cloud9 Acquired by Amazon

#155
post #105

I've discovered C9 while viewing coders working via Livecoding.tv. It's highly interesting how very young developers are using C9, naturally, to code. Something great is happening behind this behavior, it's much more than an online IDE. It feels friction less to develop a website totally online for this kind of developers. Also, for example, I can think many people using PC's on cybercafes prefering C9 to develop. I…

I fail to see how it's advantageous over just having a shell account somewhere free like SDF though. Do young developers just want to interact with everything through the browser?

Do old developers just want to interact with everything through an emulator of a Smart-CathodeRayTube? †

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT100#/media/File:Vt100-advent...

Re: Cloud9 Acquired by Amazon

#156
This will be a great way to connect to individual EC2 instances. You'll be able to automatically get a shell, a tree file browser, and a text editor all in one webpage without have to fiddle with anything.

Re: Cloud9 Acquired by Amazon

#158
post #34

I really hope that the Cloud9 service keeps running, and maintains the free version that it currently provides. I have been using Cloud9 with the Michael Hartl Rails Tutorial to teach new programmers the basics of programming with Ruby and Rails and it has greatly reduced the friction for them to start learning. In previous classes we had the students setup a Ruby and Rails environment on their own systems and not on…

Wouldn't virtual machine basically do the same thing? I've taken some classes where teacher gave us an image where everything was already installed and configured. Everything went smoothly. However, Cloud9 is much more convenient since it runs entirely on browser but VM solution could work in case C9 discontinues its free tier.

>I've taken some classes where teacher gave us an image where everything was already installed and configured.

My department tries this occasionally. It fails because students either have

a) cheap pieces of shit with unreasonably poor performance under virtualization (I'm talking multiple seconds to bring a different window to foreground under Ubuntu)

b) Retina MBPs, on which Linux has absolute garbage text rendering due to quarter-assed (half-assed is giving it too much credit) per-application support for high-DPI displays. Staring at code for hours is hard enough when the code isn't blurry.

The department runs a Linux lab in one of the libraries with professionally maintained Ubuntu installs that already have everything professors request for their courses, and provides SSH access to those machines.

An interesting side effect is that you either get good at configuring your environment for yourself (to use your own Mac or Linux machine) or you learn to work with just a terminal (use Emacs/Vim and Bash over SSH).

Re: Cloud9 Acquired by Amazon

#159
post #52

Developers are quite conservative of their environment, but a cloud IDE could be awesome. I want to write code on a 2 lb MacBook, with continuous build-as-you-type in the cloud on a fleet of Xeons that have larger CPU caches than my entire project. Have 5, 50, 500 tests that need to run? Run them all in parallel continuously and get immediate red/green feedback in your IDE. Behind the scenes Lambda takes horizontal s…

This is a great idea. It makes much more sense to run your tests in the cloud than on your local machine. I don't think it can be done 'as-you-type' due to resource constraints. But I do think it can be done pre-commit. As a programmer I'm waiting for my tests to finish for hours per day, leading to a lot of inefficient multitasking and distractions. Obligatory adapted XKCD http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/381622/Unit-test-and-the... If we can improve this it would be an amazing thing.

We're considering building this in GitLab I want a local client that pushes my working copy to GitLab and runs tests on it. GitLab can receive the code, commit it to a 'hidden' repo, and run the tests. Sending feedback about failing test or successful tests back to the client. The client could be part of an official command line client, currently we have community ones under CLI clients on https://about.gitlab.com/applications/

See https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-ce/issues/19267 for more detail.

Re: Cloud9 Acquired by Amazon

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to volunteer teaching coding to youths (teens in highschool, mostly) and I tend to believe this is the case. Though I think it's driven by the fact that it's user-friendly to set-up & use vs. alternatives. Consider the fact that it's super easy to buy a bunch of cheaper Chromebooks or tablets, fire up Nitrous or Cloud9, and now the focus can be on solving problems - rather than set-up/deployment.

> I used to volunteer teaching coding to youths (teens in highschool, mostly) Well, I just tried to sign up to c9 to give it a try, and it asked for credit card information (it is mandatory, even for trying it out). I'm not sure if all the youth has access to a credit card. Also, I don't think it is very user-friendly, but that is beside the point.

That's new and perhaps a bit orthogonal to the argument here. Perhaps it rules out C9 as an option now, but the point remains that development on C9 was much simpler than all that setup stuff you have to do for a VM.
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