[deleted]
YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics
151–160 of 251 posts
Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics
#152[deleted]
> I'm not saying the study is a bad thing, but if basic income were implemented in an entire community, it would have a different effect than just a small slice of a community. In particular, wouldn't it just raise the price of housing and rent? There's only so much land and housing to go around, and if you're competing with everyone else to buy a house or rent an apartment, if everyone else can afford to pay that much more, then the prices would go up.
What you are saying basically is that inflation will cancel out all effects of the minimum income.
You are forgetting that the minimum income does not have the same relative impact on all incomes because people earn different amounts of money.
If the minimum income is 1000 Euro a month, and if everybody earned 10000 Euro a month, then yes, we would see a 10% income increase for everybody and a subsequent 10% inflation.
But some people earn only 2000 Euro a month, and others earn 20000. That means that for some, it is a 50% raise in income, and for others it is 5%. The inflation will lie somewhere in between - more than 5% but less than 50%.
In effect, the minimum income decreases the income gap. It lowers the income of the rich via inflation and it increases the effective income of the poor by raising their nominal income above the inflation rate.
Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics
#153[deleted]
> I'm not saying the study is a bad thing, but if basic income were implemented in an entire community, it would have a different effect than just a small slice of a community. In particular, wouldn't it just raise the price of housing and rent? There's only so much land and housing to go around, and if you're competing with everyone else to buy a house or rent an apartment, if everyone else can afford to pay that mu…
This is incorrect.
The rent will precisely increase by 1000 Euro. Yes you can compare percentages all you want, but at the end of the day, 1000 Euro basic income is 1000 Euro more for everyone. That will be directly plowed into everyone's (for example) personal rent/housing budget or tolerance, which translates to inflated rental prices.
If I make $15K/month and receive a $1K/month basic income, I'll gladly pay $1K/month more for rent -- just like the guy making $5K/month would. Can you tell me what will happen to rent rates?
Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm not saying the study is a bad thing, but if basic income were implemented in an entire community, it would have a different effect than just a small slice of a community. In particular, wouldn't it just raise the price of housing and rent? There's only so much land and housing to go around, and if you're competing with everyone else to buy a house or rent an apartment, if everyone else can afford to pay that mu…
This is incorrect. The rent will precisely increase by 1000 Euro. Yes you can compare percentages all you want, but at the end of the day, 1000 Euro basic income is 1000 Euro more for everyone. That will be directly plowed into everyone's (for example) personal rent/housing budget or tolerance, which translates to inflated rental prices. If I make $15K/month and receive a $1K/month basic income, I'll gladly pay $1K/m…
That's what happened when Facebook gave out monthly housing subsidies to employees a few years back, rent increased by exactly the same amount as the subsidies in the areas that qualified for the subsidy.
Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics
#155[deleted]
> I'm not saying the study is a bad thing, but if basic income were implemented in an entire community, it would have a different effect than just a small slice of a community. In particular, wouldn't it just raise the price of housing and rent? There's only so much land and housing to go around, and if you're competing with everyone else to buy a house or rent an apartment, if everyone else can afford to pay that mu…
You seem to be assuming an externally funded basic income.
This may be true for the pilot, but once implemented "in production", a basic income would be funded through taxation, and so wouldn't increase the total amount of cash at all, just shift it about.
Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is incorrect. The rent will precisely increase by 1000 Euro. Yes you can compare percentages all you want, but at the end of the day, 1000 Euro basic income is 1000 Euro more for everyone. That will be directly plowed into everyone's (for example) personal rent/housing budget or tolerance, which translates to inflated rental prices. If I make $15K/month and receive a $1K/month basic income, I'll gladly pay $1K/m…
That's what happened when Facebook gave out monthly housing subsidies to employees a few years back, rent increased by exactly the same amount as the subsidies in the areas that qualified for the subsidy.
[deleted]
Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is incorrect. The rent will precisely increase by 1000 Euro. Yes you can compare percentages all you want, but at the end of the day, 1000 Euro basic income is 1000 Euro more for everyone. That will be directly plowed into everyone's (for example) personal rent/housing budget or tolerance, which translates to inflated rental prices. If I make $15K/month and receive a $1K/month basic income, I'll gladly pay $1K/m…
That's what happened when Facebook gave out monthly housing subsidies to employees a few years back, rent increased by exactly the same amount as the subsidies in the areas that qualified for the subsidy.
Yes but that was a subset of the total Bay area population. My claim holds true also in the case of the entire population.
Yes, rent prices in Menlo Park increased by the subsidy amount. As stated by Zuckerberg himself.
Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm not saying the study is a bad thing, but if basic income were implemented in an entire community, it would have a different effect than just a small slice of a community. In particular, wouldn't it just raise the price of housing and rent? There's only so much land and housing to go around, and if you're competing with everyone else to buy a house or rent an apartment, if everyone else can afford to pay that mu…
This is incorrect. The rent will precisely increase by 1000 Euro. Yes you can compare percentages all you want, but at the end of the day, 1000 Euro basic income is 1000 Euro more for everyone. That will be directly plowed into everyone's (for example) personal rent/housing budget or tolerance, which translates to inflated rental prices. If I make $15K/month and receive a $1K/month basic income, I'll gladly pay $1K/m…
If you make $160K a year, your tax increases to fund the basic income program will be a lot more than the $1K you'll receive, so there won't be extra for rent at all.
And this is the way it's supposed to be: High earners will be net losers, people with low/sporadic/zero market income will be net gainers.
Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics
#159I hate to be critical because I love the core idea, and YCRs wonderful corporate generosity. However, this is path dependency in action, in all it's anti-intellectual glory. The only value that will be extracted here is the publicity/marketing value. If they can somehow leverage that into some kind of state or federal government supported largesse, I will happily stand corrected.
But in the absence of that, as scientific experiments go, and dressing it up as such is a waste of money. I'm sure enough people have told them that by now. YCR says it's for figuring out the logistics, which implies some kind of future action. The only problem is if they wanted to do this correctly, this isn't going to be very useful way of figuring out the logistics for eg. people who speak Swahili. See my comment here for more info on why: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11812563
I would love to be wrong but I doubt it. The study will no doubt make for interesting reading - if it's published.
Re: YC set to launch one-year minimum income pilot project to figure out logistics
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is incorrect. The rent will precisely increase by 1000 Euro. Yes you can compare percentages all you want, but at the end of the day, 1000 Euro basic income is 1000 Euro more for everyone. That will be directly plowed into everyone's (for example) personal rent/housing budget or tolerance, which translates to inflated rental prices. If I make $15K/month and receive a $1K/month basic income, I'll gladly pay $1K/m…
If you make $160K a year, your tax increases to fund the basic income program will be a lot more than the $1K you'll receive, so there won't be extra for rent at all. And this is the way it's supposed to be: High earners will be net losers, people with low/sporadic/zero market income will be net gainers.
> your tax increases to fund the basic income program will be a lot more than the $1K you'll receive, so there won't be extra for rent at all.
This will never happen (through government legislation). If it does happen, then the policy will encourage individuals not to work, since the income to work ratio is better if you make less money. This would be a disaster for a country's economic development.