What if the DAO invested in short-selling Ethereum? 🤔🤑
How did you manage to post emoji? I thought HN stripped those (somewhat overzealously…)
Chasing the DAO Attacker’s Wake – A second exploit
151–160 of 180 posts
Re: Chasing the DAO Attacker’s Wake – A second exploit
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
Money is only a token of value. What if you were unable to accept cash (for example, you are on vacation)? Wouldn't it be useful to make a deposit on a car, right before you use it? What hasn't been explained here, are what guarantees the depositor receives.
I just don't see how ethereum (or even bitcoin) is useful here. If you make a deposit on a rental vehicle then the deposit will be returned when you return the vehicle as it was given to you. Why is a smart contract needed?
When you do not want to be there to physically collect the deposit?
Re: Chasing the DAO Attacker’s Wake – A second exploit
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
I just don't see how ethereum (or even bitcoin) is useful here. If you make a deposit on a rental vehicle then the deposit will be returned when you return the vehicle as it was given to you. Why is a smart contract needed?
When you do not want to be there to physically collect the deposit?
Certainly a smart contract is not necessary for that.
Re: Chasing the DAO Attacker’s Wake – A second exploit
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
For example, a smart contract might withhold $100 from an account, and grant whoever owns the private key to that account access to open a lock. When the user is done using the resource (say, a shared car or apartment or locker), he can request his money back (minus a fee for using the resource) which would render him unable to use the resource anymore (i.e. open the lock). Basically the equivalent of a credit card c…
> Basically the equivalent of a credit card collateral on a rental, minus the credit card company. I just don't see how a smart contract is helpful here since you're still relying on the owner of the resource to relinquish your funds when they are satisfied that you have returned their property in the condition they rented it to you. Whether you use cash, credit card, bitcoins or eth the power dynamics remain the sam…
A locker wouldn't have that problem, as there is nothing to break. Public bikes in many big cities don't have that problem either (i.e. there's no assessment of the returned bike). A smart car doesn't have to have it either (sensors in the car could detect crashes, for example, and interiors could be built to be tough, like many public cars already - see Paris' AutoLib).
Re: Chasing the DAO Attacker’s Wake – A second exploit
#155Given that trust is the single most critical aspect of the entire platform, why doesn't it use languages (for both the platform, and the contracts), programs in which can be easily formally verified, and for which tools for such verification already exists?
Re: Chasing the DAO Attacker’s Wake – A second exploit
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, all this shadenfreude from people who (wrongly) predicted ethereum would never work, and who want to feel vindicated, is predictable but frustrating.
Not at all. When I discovered ethereum a couple of years ago I thought it was a good idea. Partly because I was turning similar ideas in my head at the time. But what I read now sounds like amateurs designed & implemented it. Sorry.
And if masters had invented it, no one would be using it.
Re: Chasing the DAO Attacker’s Wake – A second exploit
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Basically the equivalent of a credit card collateral on a rental, minus the credit card company. I just don't see how a smart contract is helpful here since you're still relying on the owner of the resource to relinquish your funds when they are satisfied that you have returned their property in the condition they rented it to you. Whether you use cash, credit card, bitcoins or eth the power dynamics remain the sam…
A locker wouldn't have that problem, as there is nothing to break. Public bikes in many big cities don't have that problem either (i.e. there's no assessment of the returned bike). A smart car doesn't have to have it either (sensors in the car could detect crashes, for example, and interiors could be built to be tough, like many public cars already - see Paris' AutoLib).
> A locker wouldn't have that problem, as there is nothing to break.
There is also no need for collateral or a smart contract in this scenario.
> Public bikes in many big cities don't have that problem either (i.e. there's no assessment of the returned bike).
How does a smart contract improve over the current system?
> A smart car doesn't have to have it either (sensors in the car could detect crashes, for example, and interiors could be built to be tough, like many public cars already - see Paris' AutoLib)
How does a smart contract help?
In all of your examples a smart contract doesn't add anything to the equation because the merchant (or the merchant's automated centralized systems) already have the authority and capability to relinquish deposited funds.
Re: Chasing the DAO Attacker’s Wake – A second exploit
#158Re: Chasing the DAO Attacker’s Wake – A second exploit
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
Certainly a smart contract is not necessary for that.
Can you link to such an implementation?
I'm not really sure what you're asking for. If you're looking for a system capable of accepting payment without an attendant there are many. Here is just one example:
http://bw-2e2c4bf7ceaa4712a72dd5ee136dc9a8-bwcore.s3.amazona...
If this is not the type of device you're talking about please be more specific.
Re: Chasing the DAO Attacker’s Wake – A second exploit
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
This looks like an ideal use case for a Haskel based DSL. We need good static analysis capabilities, and we have to carefully manage side effects.
I'm not sure Haskell's type system is sophisticated enough to be relied on to prevent the kinds of problems The DAO ran into. As I understand it, one of the bugs boils down to recursive calls between two side-effecting functions, which seems like it would probably be just as possible in a parallel-universe Ethereum based on Haskell.
Hmm, so the DSL needs to enforce some kind of contract and limit scheme, like that Ada dialect that the aerospace guys occasionally bring up. I bet they have decades of research that the next DAO project devs should familiarise themselves with.