Live data from Hacker News

Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

nytimes.com

151–160 of 210 posts

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#151
post #84
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing India because of the karma comment. What here in HN is a number on your profile, there it is a promise of a better future (but maybe in the next life).

Karma is also an explanation/justification of why your current life isn't so good - you're making amends for something bad you did in a previous life.

A rationalization.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#152
post #19

Listen, there's no point claiming the H1 situation isn't a rampant clusterfuck. Actual skilled laborers lie in limbo while busloads of cheap, disposable foreign workers are brought over to get exploited and depress domestic wages. It's a full on disaster. If you have to have temporary worker visas, fine. But don't tie them to a company. If there's a legitimate need, and they're legitimately skilled, they'll find work…

> disposable foreign workers are brought over to get exploited "exploited" is a matter of perspective. To an onlooker who has lived their whole life in a first world country, seeing people work for $x - (less-significantlyLess) [where $x is what is "typical" for the job] can be seen as bad/wrong/sad etc... I have spent time working in very poor parts of Mexico and Manila. Crime is rampant, I feared for my life at tim…

What your missing missing out is the societal destruction of the USA inherit in highly polarized wealth in a society. Crime increases with wealth inequality and it's because of companies exploiting visa's like the H1B.

You've seen this crime yourself why would you want to make America crap like the Phillipines?

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#154
Honest question: if a guy in India can do the same job as a guy in the US, but coming from a country with worse economy agrees to do it cheaper, why would I sympathize with the american guy in this situation?

Honestly, to me it seems like american working class have been really privileged compared to the world's population in 20th century, and globalization finally brings some equality — which might not be a good thing to american middle class, but is a great one for workers from China, India and all other 3rd world countries.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#155
This is simple "they stole our jobs" rhetoric. It's just like taxi drivers with their "Uber stole our fares". If you can't compete, go to another market. If you're already overcharging, charge less. "Depressing local wages" is a good thing - it reduces the cost to society of getting productive things done.

The other argument about foreign workers being exploited is a clear sign of people pretending to care but really not caring. Sure there are some who were tricked into debt traps, but for most, they know what they're getting into and they know it's better than what they have back home. So they're making a step up in life. You want to kick them back down because you care about their welfare? What it means is you only care about people in America and once they leave, they lose their status as worthy human beings who deserve good working conditions.

I used to be a foreign laborer. I was paid minimum wage to do grunt work that locals didn't want. It was wonderful. The currency was worth more in my home country than where I was working. It helped me pay off my student loan. I would have hated to be forced out by someone trying to protect me from myself. My coworkers loved it too, they'd send money home to help their parents run their farms and pay off their own loans. They'd laugh at the lazy local workers who were mostly overweight and doing the same job more slowly.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#156
post #155

This is simple "they stole our jobs" rhetoric. It's just like taxi drivers with their "Uber stole our fares". If you can't compete, go to another market. If you're already overcharging, charge less. "Depressing local wages" is a good thing - it reduces the cost to society of getting productive things done. The other argument about foreign workers being exploited is a clear sign of people pretending to care but really…

No, it's not.

This is about companies only granting severance if you sign non-disparagement agreements.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#157
post #155

This is simple "they stole our jobs" rhetoric. It's just like taxi drivers with their "Uber stole our fares". If you can't compete, go to another market. If you're already overcharging, charge less. "Depressing local wages" is a good thing - it reduces the cost to society of getting productive things done. The other argument about foreign workers being exploited is a clear sign of people pretending to care but really…

No, it's not. This is about companies only granting severance if you sign non-disparagement agreements.

Well yes, mainly. But the complaint of the laid-off workers was about immigrants taking their jobs.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#158
post #3

I am not surprised that companies that are broken enough to do the outsourcing in the first place are also often broken enough to have this term in severance agreements. But it really should not be standard.

Is it really broken to fight an artificial government imposed monopoly, which is what labor restrictions on foreigners is? This isn't something that's going to make the incumbents destitute. They're IT workers, eminently hire-able and highly paid. I'm sure they can cope with a pay cut unless they've been living beyond their means, which would get them in trouble no matter what their income.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#159

In Canada Temporary Foreign Worker (TFW) program was changed. It was getting to the point where entire industries changed overnight out with long-time employees and in with near slave wage "TFWs" (many people just say refer to the people as TFWs). It got so bad it became a huge political hot potato and the law was changed resulting in many TFWs disappearing as fast as they arrived. The law here was similar to the TFW…

$5/hour sounds like they were violating minimum wage law which is now about $11/hour. Surely that itself is the problem, not whether the workers were foreign or local, or how much above minimum wage they were paid.

Re: Laid-Off Americans, Required to Zip Lips on Way Out, Grow Bolder

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you define "fair" in fair market wage? It eventually has to come down to, "I'm an American, so I'm entitled to get paid more than everybody else on the planet for doing a given job." I find that attitude pretty disgusting, but that's just me. The same people who complain endlessly about H1Bs, outsourcing, and cheap foreign labor will then cheerfully drive to Wal-Mart and buy a new DVD player for $12. It will n…

Yes, but US labor and citizens fought generations for those wages. Revolutionary War, Civil War, World Wars, company / labor riots, taxes to subsidize industry, taxes for infrastructure, taxes for education, legal systems, all that. US taxpayers paid for our economy through blood and toil. You don't think high wages just happen because companies feel generous do you?

Does what your ancestors might have done really make you more deserving of a better life? I understand that it gives you more chance of a better life, but just by the luck of the lottery of birth, not by any actual fairness.

Did civil war soldiers really know they were fighting for high wages 150 years later? Were taxpayers really choosing to pay tax because they expected it would give their grandkids a higher salary, or because it was the law and they'd be fined or imprisoned if they didn't? Every country had wars, and they're just meaningless wars. They weren't fought for the good things we eventually got. They were fought for a meaningless feeling of needing to support whatever group each soldier belonged to.

If you don't want other people to use your country, how do you tolerate babies being born? They never contributed anything. They're just like immigrants - appearing and competing with the existing people.

Post reply on HN