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Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

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Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#151

Post by riprowan »

Dwolb wrote: post #89
baldfat wrote: post #23

I owned a SMALL Record Label and Studio. I was (still?) good at picking out talent in bands. The Whole Industry Sucks I had two bands that ended up on Major Labels and Toured the World. I met a kid on the street wearing one of my Bands shirts and struck up a conversation. They still love the band 10 years later. These guys per person made at the TOP $7,000 in profit after expenses were paid. One band did a KickStarte…

Just a side note, I saw the founder of Pandora speak and he said their mission is to create a middle class for musicians by making it easier to discover, listen, and support non-hit artists. I'm not sure if their plan had a broader strategy, but I felt the vision was at least admirable due to its mission beyond just firm profits.

As a non-hit artist, married to a non-hit artist, and who's produced a bevy of non-hit artists, I can say that roughly none of a non-hit artist's income is likely to come from Pandora / Pandora discovery.

At $0.0001/stream typical, Pandora itself cannot ever add up to meaningful income for a non-hit artist. Most of the income for the non-hit artist will come from that core group of committed fans who buy everything the artist makes, contribute to kickstarters, and shows up at all the concerts.

As a discovery tool Pandora's value is debatable. My anecdotal experience is that of all the various ways that I and other artists I know have made fans, Pandora was never one. YMMV.

(Update: I just found a bit a data that states that Pandora accounts for ~10% of new music discovery which is a lot better than I would have guessed.)

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#152

Post by tunesmith »

6stringmerc wrote: post #95
Dwolb wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a side note, I saw the founder of Pandora speak and he said their mission is to create a middle class for musicians by making it easier to discover, listen, and support non-hit artists. I'm not sure if their plan had a broader strategy, but I felt the vision was at least admirable due to its mission beyond just firm profits.

Pandora genuinely has a channel for independent music acts to submit material for play consideration. They are incredibly obscure about the process of whether they accept or decline to include specific music. But it does actually exist, so credit where it's due.

It sucks when you get declined - I had a seven-song album that I honestly felt pretty darn good about, was co-produced by a buddy that had an album on Pandora. I remember he was nervous about whether he'd get on Pandora and was relieved when he did, said he had an "in" at Pandora but wasn't sure it helped. He felt pretty confident mine would get in if his did - I submitted. They ask for you to pick one song from the album for them to check out first, and if they choose to check out the others from the album afterward, they will. So I picked the one that seemed to have the broadest enjoyment from my friends - fairly straightforward, nice instrumentation.

Months passed, and then I got a form letter saying the album was rejected. No explanation, no details on if the other songs were listened to, etc. I've never been sure whether to conclude if my songwriting just sucks more than I thought it did. Anyway, I haven't really had any ideas of where to submit the album since then, other than just giving up and putting it on Spotify.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#153

Post by baldfat »

pink_dinner wrote: post #138
Dwolb wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a side note, I saw the founder of Pandora speak and he said their mission is to create a middle class for musicians by making it easier to discover, listen, and support non-hit artists. I'm not sure if their plan had a broader strategy, but I felt the vision was at least admirable due to its mission beyond just firm profits.

How do you create a 'middle class' when there is no money left in the industry for smaller artists? Pandora pays the superstars well and if you aren't getting millions of plays, you aren't making enough to even provide for yourself. This all started with file sharing 15 years ago. Everyone thought they were helping out the independent artists, but in reality, it made it so they could no longer compete without a huge…

> Everyone thought they were helping out the independent artists, but in reality, it made it so they could no longer compete without a huge corporation backing them. File sharing has only helped big labels by increasing the barrier to entry.

Speaking about Indie Music

I'm the SMALL Record Label. The money comes in through sales of Merch, Gigs and selling CD/MP3. I think there has never been a time better for Indie Music. There are more people making a "living" in music and not being a big label band or a cover band, but they are all fighting for a very small pot.

Blame

1) Music Fans. The vast majority of people will never give Indie bands a listen and have the listening pallet of a 6 year old.

2) Indie population is high majority college age kids. I would love to see this expand. I am in my 40s and I don't know anyone my age that is into Indie Music. Heck when I was in my late 20s and early 30 I was "Old Man" to everyone.

3) Bands - Don't have enough money sense (Including myself as a studio/label owner). They have a TON of survivor instincts and the tenacity to keep going but they can't figure out how to turn things into money.

4) Streaming - People actively seeking out certain music pays the same as mindless random steams. I think if people search and specifically pick your music it should pay more.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#154

Post by mt3ck »

baldfat wrote: post #23

I owned a SMALL Record Label and Studio. I was (still?) good at picking out talent in bands. The Whole Industry Sucks I had two bands that ended up on Major Labels and Toured the World. I met a kid on the street wearing one of my Bands shirts and struck up a conversation. They still love the band 10 years later. These guys per person made at the TOP $7,000 in profit after expenses were paid. One band did a KickStarte…

This reminds me of a clip from Vinyl.

Vinyl 1x01 - Zak Yankovich "We practically break even on all the flops." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PU3DHiXZ-8

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#155

Post by theseatoms »

sneak wrote: post #146
ArkyBeagle wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The labels that didn't come out ahead don't exist any more. Nobody says this: In the 1980s, you could establish the sort of relationships to get priority at CD plants and resell back catalog that was already universally known. So the people who won did that instead of so much trying to break new acts. The last gasp of a flood of new acts actually getting on radio was the SubPop ... thing in the 1990s. After that, not…

Literally anyone can put a streaming app into the major app stores these days and bypass all of this. Why are the Big 3 still in this chokehold position? Is the market failing, or do they actually provide valuable services that can't be obtained elsewhere? In either case: why is that?

They probably own all the rights to everyone's favorite music from the last century.

Disclaimer: Not an expert. Not in the music industry.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#156

Post by duderific »

AnthonyNagid wrote: post #133

Something that I don't think is addressed enough is how a well practiced and versatile musician can make a living through their immediate community. It could still involve secondary income from the music industry as supplement to a healthy primary income provided by the synergy between them and their community. I can elaborate but I'll wait to see if anyone else finds this interesting.

> how a well practiced and versatile musician can make a living through their immediate community

There are so many barriers to this.

They need a venue at which to perform regularly, which helps somewhat to promote their performance. These are becoming few and far between. They are not likely to make much money for said performances (of course this depends on the size of the venue and the following they've managed to develop.)

Forgot about making any money selling recordings. People expect music to be free nowadays. The days of selling $10 cd's at your show are pretty much over. Maybe if you cater to an older crowd that isn't hip to the streaming/Youtube culture you can sell a few cd's here and there but certainly nowhere near enough to support yourself.

So... the "healthy primary income" you describe would be nearly impossible to achieve in today's environment. Most local musicians need to supplement their income working other jobs such as barista, Uber driver etc.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#157

Post by Jenya_ »

Declanomous wrote: post #97
slouch wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, it's still primarily http://last.fm/ 's similar artist feature.

I've had the opposite experience with Last.fm. I actually realized last week that my scrobbling was broken, and I wasn't particularly disappointed. Last.fm used to be a place where I could check out bands I had never heard of. It was like the website equivalent of the friend who spends all day listening to new music, and will recommend music that is eerily perfect for you. I feel like the "similar artists" function h…

there is some new music on http://www.thesixtyone.com/, the site came back to life again at the beginning of this year.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#158

Post by gdwatson »

sneak wrote: post #148
chx wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really like Patreon. https://patreon.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204606315-What... it's continuous crowdfunding.

Patreon engages in content censorship.

Could you provide examples? I give to a couple of creators through Patreon, and I might want to reconsider.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#159

Post by duderific »

mgirdley wrote: post #65

Irony abounds here. Steve's band gets paid six figures a year each and flies coach to each gig. Steve flies in on a private jet and takes home multiple millions each year.

I hear what you're saying about the irony, but I'm sure Steve's band doesn't mind. The number of musician gigs that pay six figures is EXTREMELY limited.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#160

Post by oldmanjay »

sneak wrote: post #148
chx wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really like Patreon. https://patreon.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204606315-What... it's continuous crowdfunding.

Patreon engages in content censorship.

In what sense? I'm not familiar enough with their terms but this sounds interesting
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