Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 179 posts

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#151

Post by ubernostrum »

eggy wrote: post #55
ageofwant wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not meaningless. Its millions of tons of plastic less, it may be the 2% margin that matters.

I read the book Guesstimation 2.0 by Lawrence Weinstein a few years ago, and it had this breakdown. This is not addressing any other fact than how much time people spend worrying about the wrong thing, thinking emotionally rather than rationally or mathematically: "Paper or Plastic? How many plastic bags does the US use in one year? 10 bags per grocery store trip x 2 trips per week x 52 weeks per year = 1000 bags per…

The thing is, you can make this argument about any individual thing, and the goal is to lead into the (fallacious) conclusion "none of these things make a difference on their own, so the combination of them wouldn't make a difference either".

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#152

Post by dmm »

ced wrote: post #126
Retric wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nitrous oxide and Methane both break down in the atmosphere. If we where starting from zero then sure they would both have a large impact but they are both in sufficient quantities that lot's of them are breaking down making the future contribution have a negotiable net effect.

Are you saying that there is a ceiling to how much methane can be up there, and we've reached it?

I think their argument is like this: Imagine there are 10 units of methane in the atmosphere and every year 1 unit breaks down into CO2.

If cows add 1 unit per year and the source of that unit is ultimately CO2, then the cows aren't actually making things worse than they are now.

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#153

Post by x5n1 »

Gedrovits wrote: post #144

First of all, don't give up too easy. It's a lot easier to say: we are screwed, my contribution will not change anything. This is wrong approach to the problem, changes start from somewhere. Imagine the startup, who don't have customers yet and just gives up (because what's point, they will not come). The more traction they have, the more snowballish it become. How regular people can help? 1) Try to use renewable mat…

Stop participating in the economy as much as possible. Learn to live a subsistence lifestyle. Move to the second or third world and learn how to live like the third world in a very small amount of space consuming the least amount of resources necessary to live. You can do it. Also don't have any children.

While you do this the capitalists will be trying to move all the 3rd world people to the 1st world lifestyle. Just to balance things out.

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#154

Post by fche »

ageofwant wrote: post #75
fche wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Fertilisers and fuel did not come from the air." True, and they are probably at least a small net flow into the atmosphere. But: "There are hundreds of millions of cows (and other livestock) that did not exist before." ... that part doesn't matter: agriculture is by nature carbon-neutral (except if you count mechanization aspects like fertilizers + fuel).

Agriculture is most certainly not carbon-neutral by nature, even with your exclusions. CH4 is persistent and not readily available for photosynthesis.

It burns back into CO2 before too long.

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#155

Post by tremon »

fche wrote: post #60
n72 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: "An estimated 30 million small-scale fishermen and women depend on reefs for their livelihoods, more than one million in the Philippines alone. In Indonesia, fish supported by the reefs provide the primary source of protein."

Thanks, so it's a human-food availability concern.

I think that's so shortsighted, it borders on being rude. It's the most direct impact it has on us, yes, but it's not just food availability for humans that's impacted.

We are looking at the devastation of an entire habitat. Many species that rely on that habitat may cease to exist. As a consequence, many species that eat animals from that habitat may disappear too.

Worst-case, we're faced with the disappearance of an entire food chain. And since many large ocean species travel the entire world, the consequences will not remain local.

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#156

Post by Symbiote »

stcredzero wrote: post #121
pink_dinner wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as you also increase taxes and have penalties in every country. Go to India, Hong Kong, Indonesia, China (The list could go on). The air is polluted with the stench of car exhaust pretty much every where you go. I even went to London a few months ago and got sick because of the pollution. When I would blow my nose at the end of the day, black nasty soot would be on the kleenix. The US has done a lot to help o…

Are we also going to tax electric vehicles because the batteries cause damage to the environment (and we don't have a good way to dispose of them yet)? Do you have citations for this?

It seems the process isn't especially profitable, but it exists: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214993714...

I don't see any reason to say the batteries damage the environment.

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#157

Post by maxerickson »

Symbiote wrote: post #156
stcredzero wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we also going to tax electric vehicles because the batteries cause damage to the environment (and we don't have a good way to dispose of them yet)? Do you have citations for this?

It seems the process isn't especially profitable, but it exists: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214993714... I don't see any reason to say the batteries damage the environment.

The materials used come out of mines.

The damage to the environment may not be egregious, but it is clear enough that it is there.

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#158

Post by Chronic51 »

Gedrovits wrote: post #144

First of all, don't give up too easy. It's a lot easier to say: we are screwed, my contribution will not change anything. This is wrong approach to the problem, changes start from somewhere. Imagine the startup, who don't have customers yet and just gives up (because what's point, they will not come). The more traction they have, the more snowballish it become. How regular people can help? 1) Try to use renewable mat…

I, and millions of others, say: "we are screwed, my contribution will not change anything"

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#159

Post by indlebe »

x5n1 wrote: post #153
Gedrovits wrote: post #144

First of all, don't give up too easy. It's a lot easier to say: we are screwed, my contribution will not change anything. This is wrong approach to the problem, changes start from somewhere. Imagine the startup, who don't have customers yet and just gives up (because what's point, they will not come). The more traction they have, the more snowballish it become. How regular people can help? 1) Try to use renewable mat…

Stop participating in the economy as much as possible. Learn to live a subsistence lifestyle. Move to the second or third world and learn how to live like the third world in a very small amount of space consuming the least amount of resources necessary to live. You can do it. Also don't have any children. While you do this the capitalists will be trying to move all the 3rd world people to the 1st world lifestyle. Jus…

The fact that this is down voted shows what an elephant in the room this really is.

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#160

Post by lossolo »

Gedrovits wrote: post #144

First of all, don't give up too easy. It's a lot easier to say: we are screwed, my contribution will not change anything. This is wrong approach to the problem, changes start from somewhere. Imagine the startup, who don't have customers yet and just gives up (because what's point, they will not come). The more traction they have, the more snowballish it become. How regular people can help? 1) Try to use renewable mat…

I do a lot from this list BUT... then i look at China that has carbon emissions equal to EU + US + INDIA all together.. and i am really concerned.
Post reply on HN