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Spotify raises $1B in debt with devilish terms to fight Apple Music

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Re: Spotify raises $1B in debt with devilish terms to fight Apple Music

#151
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you miss?

I was an Rdio subscriber from 2010 until it shut down, and I've been a Spotify subscriber since. I can name a few things: 1) Discovery. Rdio would inform me when new albums are out by artists I listen to. Spotify doesn't. Rdio's "Artist Stations" were also much better – not only did they not repeat (like Spotify's do), they also let you choose whether you wanted to hear "more" or "less" of the artist themselves while…

A key feature that made me switch from Rdio was that if I searched for an Artist I could not play it's most popular songs. It just played albums.

All the features you listed is nothing compared to that basic functionality.

Re: Spotify raises $1B in debt with devilish terms to fight Apple Music

#152
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather a sidenote: Surprisingly enough I think that none of the current services, including Spotify, hold a candle to what rdio, now shutdown, had to offer. I was shocked to learn just how far behind Spotify, Apple Music, Tidal, Deezer or Google Music were when I had to look for an alternative. It's really bad. That was a very common reaction among ex-rdio users.

What do you miss?

The first things that comes to mind:

- Browse by label (additionally sort by most recent releases): I know it's not a mainstream thing, but labels, particularly smaller ones, are very good curators and a great indicator for worthwhile music. For the music I enjoy it's absolutely necessary to keep up with a label's recent releases.

- A great community that had tools to discuss music and releases: Being able to comment on albums, playlists and other items seems like a very obvious feature to me. And it was a powerful one on rdio - You'd often see familiar faces in the comment section of an album and start interesting discussions. This isn't possible on Spotify at all. Furthermore I could see what's popular among my friends (and not just in general!) on a single "Heavy Rotation" page - if you carefully select who to follow, this is invaluable. I have a similar follower count on Spotify as I did on rdio, but no meaningful way to interact with them - there's an activity feed where I can share discoveries with everyone, but it's the saddest thing I've ever seen in social networks: It's a one-way feature to shout recommendations at everyone but there's no way for others to get back to me and add their feedback. I might as well talk to myself. If you enjoy being a curator and recommending things to others Spotify is close to useless.

- A working queue: This is just horrible. It's not obvious at all how the queuing system works in Spotify. Apparently it's tied to whatever client you're currently use. Listening on mobile? Better prepared to see a very different queue once you switch over to the desktop. In rdio the queue was basically a persistent "Listen later..." playlist - it could differentiate between single songs, full albums and palylists - if you had an album and a playlist queued it would show two items which you could drag and drop in order to move up or down. Beautiful. Enter Spotify: Imagine you're listening to an album and you'd like to add a second album to be played after the current one. Instead Spotify will start playing the second album immediately after the current SONG thereby interrupting the current album. By the way, the option to start that confusing process is called "Add to queue", not "Play next" which doesn't exist. Horrible. On iOS you can't change the order of the current queue either - you can't even jump from the current track to item #27 as the only way to navigate the queue on iOS is to skip track by track. It basically means that you'll never use the queue for anything and just create your own "Play later" playlists.

I get the feeling that Spotify is for people who don't want to deal with music. Start the app, hit play on a Spotify-provided playlist with a hip background cover and mildly interesting name and be done with it. That person is not me. However I can see why it was appearing to the masses. The sad thing is that rdio could do all these simple things and be used in similar fashion to Spotify and its playlist-centric approach too - it just offered all those additional features on top and still lost.

Re: Spotify raises $1B in debt with devilish terms to fight Apple Music

#153
post #2

"TPG and Dragoneer can sell their shares just 90 days after the IPO, before the 180-day lockup period ends for Spotify’s employees and other investors." Among many the bad terms disclosed in the article, IMO this is probably the worst - basically, this right is a license to cash out and torpedo the company within 3 months (just the right amount of time to see how the market reacts to Spotify's first earnings call as…

These terms remind me of penny stock toxic financing schemes.

I look forward to the inevitable pump and dump around IPO time.

Re: Spotify raises $1B in debt with devilish terms to fight Apple Music

#154

"By raising debt rather than equity, it doesn’t have to worry about poor signaling from a down-round raised at a lower valuation than the $8.5 billion it set in June 2015." Anyone care to explain what this means?

If they raised it as equity, they would have to give away a percentage of the company - which gives a 'valuation' to it. So, if they raised $1B for 10% equity, the valuation of the company's worth would be $10B. To avoid this hassle entirely, they raised it as 'debt'. The reason being, if they had to give away more than 8.5% of the company for the $1B, the company's valuation would have gone 'down' which can give off…

Thank you!

So, "down-round" == reduced valuation, and "poor signalling" == consequent bad vibe?

Re: Spotify raises $1B in debt with devilish terms to fight Apple Music

#155

Maybe they should have added an Apple Watch app when the watch was released. I've paid for premium for over 2 years but switched when I got my watch because there was no app for Spotify (only third party apps that don't support offline listening and don't integrate very well either). Anyways, I'm now glad to have switch to Apple Music because they seem to have more content (at least more content I like) and their rad…

It's a pity that they didn't make an app for the Apple Watch but I think if you put yourself in their shoes then you might be be able to figure out why they would not choose to do that. I'm thinking it's not a large market, it probably has a high proportion of Apply loyalists, and it's supporting a competitors product.

Re: Spotify raises $1B in debt with devilish terms to fight Apple Music

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was an Rdio subscriber from 2010 until it shut down, and I've been a Spotify subscriber since. I can name a few things: 1) Discovery. Rdio would inform me when new albums are out by artists I listen to. Spotify doesn't. Rdio's "Artist Stations" were also much better – not only did they not repeat (like Spotify's do), they also let you choose whether you wanted to hear "more" or "less" of the artist themselves while…

A key feature that made me switch from Rdio was that if I searched for an Artist I could not play it's most popular songs. It just played albums. All the features you listed is nothing compared to that basic functionality.

I disagree. Sure, people value different things, but I'd rate that functionality as a pretty minor feature. As a compromise rdio highlighted popular songs within an album. Artist stations with the slider set to focus on the current artist (only?) might have achieved the same results too, I guess. So, it's not as if it couldn't be done.

The almost complete absence of social features however, that's a big one in my opinion.

Re: Spotify raises $1B in debt with devilish terms to fight Apple Music

#157
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The modern desktop app is at a point where it's pretty solid, but I still miss that old 0.80.x branch or whatever the final non-chromium verison was. But you know what? Google doesn't have a desktop app for Google Music. Amazon doesn't have a desktop app for Amazon Prime. Apple doesn't have a desktop version... so yeah, despite the fact that Spotify's only-one-in-the-business desktop app isn't perfect, it does exist.…

Groove (xbox music) has a desktop app and it runs a lot better than Spotifys. Also Tidal has a desktop app that also runs better.

You are not tied to the Spotify official app if you are a paying customer. There are alternatives.

Re: Spotify raises $1B in debt with devilish terms to fight Apple Music

#158
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All out war for streaming customers with apple and google. Someone is going to collect $10 (plus $1 or $2 increase every couple years) per month for a huge segment of the music listening population for basically the rest of our lives. Spotify want it to be them.

Still waiting for competition to affect prices. Eg I would be happy to pay 5$/month for limited, ad free access to Spotify/ whatever, but 10$ seems excessive. Given that we may indeed pay this for the rest of our lifes, it's strange nobody seems to mind the cost.

As someone who buys a lot of music, this attitude seems very alien to me - 10 bucks for a very large collection? It's an insane deal - so good that hardly any artist can live off it.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not a fan of streaming services and prefer to own my music (a large part of which isn't available for streaming anyway) but for most people this is an incredibly fair deal.

Re: Spotify raises $1B in debt with devilish terms to fight Apple Music

#159
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that the founders interests are aligned with the early employees, they are all taking an equal haircut. Either (a) the founders are sacrificing themselves for the sake of the company which means they were already in dire straits or (b) they actually believe that this will be a net positive for the value of common shares, e.g. by avoiding a down round. Well, actually, (c) the founders have lost their controlling…

> Note that the founders interests are aligned with the early employees, they are all taking an equal haircut. I disagree. The founders definitely have an important stake in the outcome but they stand to get very wealthy if it works out and early employees will - in most cases - make back a premium on the lower wages they took because of stock options (which you should never do) and the extra hours they put in to mak…

Re:taking lower lages. I'm pretty sure early Spotify employees had no idea it would become this big AND have pretty good wages as it is right now.

It doesn't mean that they don't care about their share in the company (obviously, after spending 5 years of your life at a company, you want your share of the cake) but it's unfair to conclude that they only have their stocks, a lot of the early employees either left the company or occupy rather senior positions at Spotify.

Re: Spotify raises $1B in debt with devilish terms to fight Apple Music

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still waiting for competition to affect prices. Eg I would be happy to pay 5$/month for limited, ad free access to Spotify/ whatever, but 10$ seems excessive. Given that we may indeed pay this for the rest of our lifes, it's strange nobody seems to mind the cost.

As someone who buys a lot of music, this attitude seems very alien to me - 10 bucks for a very large collection? It's an insane deal - so good that hardly any artist can live off it. Don't get me wrong - I'm not a fan of streaming services and prefer to own my music (a large part of which isn't available for streaming anyway) but for most people this is an incredibly fair deal.

$10/month when I already own a lot of music. I wasn't spending that on new music before streaming.

I've gone with Google Music for this reason - my personal collection is in the cloud for streaming purposes (saved me the hassle of a home media server) - I occasionally buy new music from various sources and upload it to my account.

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