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U.S. Drops California Case Against Apple After Accessing iPhone

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Re: U.S. Drops California Case Against Apple After Accessing iPhone

#151
post #84
post #8

This is possibly the worst outcome. The tide of public opinion was turning towards Apple and privacy, and away from the FBI; for it to enter the court under this pretence there was a strong argument to be made against the latter. With this announcement, for the many, this matter will now be "resolved". When it inevitably rears its ugly head again, the same pretence may no longer be true.

I think I know what you mean but don't forget there is a specific and horrible case here too. Many people died and now the FBI has access to the phone. I don't know what the odds are that they will find anything useful in way of easing the pain of the victims or preventing an occurrence, but certainly it seems highly plausible. And at the very least a lot of resources going into this part of the investigation can now…

You're right, I perhaps was a little callous with my disregard of the specifics of the case rather than focus on the larger potential precedent.

Re: U.S. Drops California Case Against Apple After Accessing iPhone

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That stuff is not going to change over night, and lobbyists aren't inherently bad. It takes other lobbyists to educate Congress and the public about the flip side of the debate. Tesla is working on that now. If you yourself feel passionately about any issue, nothing is stopping you from launching your own website and campaign. You don't even need to be registered as a non profit. You can say whatever you like. Many c…

nothing is stopping you from launching your own website and campaign Nothing except the fact that we don't have a multi-billion-dollar interest group paying us to do so ;). I agree with you that things can sometimes be done at the grassroots level, but there is simply no comparison to the tenacity and endurance of influence available to the big players. Any grassroots effort must find a way to surmount that obstacle,…

Sure. But collective votes trump money every time. And your voice is part of getting that collective going. It isn't easy. You need to be an active speaker to participate. You need to be good at presenting facts and convincing people. But with the right to free speech, this is something anyone can practice and learn, even computer scientists. As hidden as we liked to stay behind our monitors growing up, it is time we start coming out from under our shells.

Re: U.S. Drops California Case Against Apple After Accessing iPhone

#153

Just a random thought: Isn't it quite an interesting coincidence that they found a way into the iPhone just as people were reporting problems with iOS 9.3?

It would appear random thoughts are not entertained here lol.

Re: U.S. Drops California Case Against Apple After Accessing iPhone

#154

I'm seeing a lot of comments to the effect that the government will just try again at some point. Well, welcome to life in a democracy. Nothing is ever settled with finality because there are plenty of ways for future generations to change the laws we cherish today--for good or ill. We could revoke the 13th and 14th Amendments and have slavery again--there is no legal impediment to that. That we don't do that is a re…

I think that your comment, while true in spirit, misrepresents some of the mechanics in play here.

> We could revoke the 13th and 14th Amendments and have slavery again--there is no legal impediment to that.

Of course there is - the constitutional amendment process is designed precisely to be an impediment. Unlike a legal proceeding, where courts can create case law essentially at a whim by legal means alone, the constitutional amendment process is a complex and different political process, requiring quite a few procedural stars to align.

One of the problems is that the courts (and, for that matter, Congress and the POTUS) tend not to abide by the text of the constitution, preferring to usurp the political process with their own legal, legislative, or bureaucratic one, respectively.

> We could abolish the EPA, or the IRS, or the NSA. We don't because these have enough supporters who value what they do, today.

I don't think this is true, but I concede that it's not really measurable. What I mean is: the reason that these methods of control persist is not that they have made a convincing case to the public that their mission is laudable and faithfully executed (environmental protection, accurate and fair taxation, and security for US persons vis a vis international dealings). In fact, it's quite plain to see that all three of these agencies have, from time to time, failed spectacularly at these missions, with some incidents attributable to incompetence and others to misconduct.

Instead, I want to suggest that the reason they persist is that they provide convenient mechanisms for exacting power and that they are controlled by people who desire that capacity.

> The 2nd Amendment remains strong today because millions of Americans work every day to keep it that way.

While I agree with this statement, I think that it is somewhat contrary to your previous one. Here you are talking about the preservation of protections offered by the text of a document, which I agree can only be protected by political vigilance. This is fundamentally different from (and perhaps the opposite of) the assertion by entrenched agencies that they operate by political will.

> So, the long-term solution for strong encryption must be a cultural one. We have to be prepared to fight the crypto wars forever, like unions are still fighting the labor wars a century later. Like civil rights activists are fighting racism even today--and will be for the foreseeable future.

Here's where I start to agree with you. This is beautifully put.

Re: U.S. Drops California Case Against Apple After Accessing iPhone

#155
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but what's a little perjury between government officials: http://www.salon.com/2013/06/12/how_james_clapper_will_get_a...

Lying to an indifferent, disagreeable, and dysfunctional legislature is one thing. Lying directly to a federal judge with contempt power is how one ends up in jail before packing up your suitcase and walking out the courtroom.

Not for something like this.

Re: U.S. Drops California Case Against Apple After Accessing iPhone

#156
post #46
post #11

I feel like cases shouldn't be droppable unless both parties mutually agree, and the courts also must first agree.the courts should not agree if it's a case that could set a precedent that can have far reaching implications. What if next time, a smaller player than Apple was caught in this sort of case, and they can't fight back as easily? Then it'd be easier to setup a precedent favourable to one party. This seems l…

One of the reasons that courts do not allow cases to continue when a party loses interest in the dispute (for whatever reason) is that the court can no longer trust that party to continue making a forceful case. You can end up with situations where the party refuses to spend money on making good arguments and finding evidence, then make very bad precedent because of it.

That's actually a good point, setting precedent by one side not being represented properly.

Thinking further, one company could easily setup another and sue it for one thing or another. The set-up company presents a believable but purposefully flawed case and voilà: legal precedent.

Re: U.S. Drops California Case Against Apple After Accessing iPhone

#158

I'm seeing a lot of comments to the effect that the government will just try again at some point. Well, welcome to life in a democracy. Nothing is ever settled with finality because there are plenty of ways for future generations to change the laws we cherish today--for good or ill. We could revoke the 13th and 14th Amendments and have slavery again--there is no legal impediment to that. That we don't do that is a re…

> Well, welcome to life in a democracy. The problem is not that things change in a democracy. The problem is that the change we get does not represent the will of the people. A majority of Americans is dissatisfied with the Patriot Act [1] yet it keeps getting renewed. A majority of Americans thinks political spending is corrupt [2] and that the political system is rigged, yet we get Citizens United to pour even more…

Yes and nearly 8 in 10 Americans believe in angels [0]

You're cherry-picking topics you (presumably) agree on.

[0] http://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-nearly-8-in-10-americans-be...

Re: U.S. Drops California Case Against Apple After Accessing iPhone

#159
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly -- because the US isn't a democracy (majority rule), it's a democratic republic.

Is that a distinction worth making? By that standard, how many countries in the world are actually democracies?

Absolutely it is. Google the difference. A democratic republic ultimately derives power from the people. There are more checks and balances in place in America than one person one vote. More info [1]

[1] http://www.thisnation.com/question/011.html

Re: U.S. Drops California Case Against Apple After Accessing iPhone

#160
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly -- because the US isn't a democracy (majority rule), it's a democratic republic.

It's not a direct democracy. That didn't mean it's not a democracy. If you redefine democracy to be the narrowest possible interpretation, you eliminate every government in the world. You also make the word pretty much useless.

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