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Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

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Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#151

Post by pwm »

branchless wrote: post #138
pwm wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re job security - In reality as long as you produce value it is just as secure as a perm job. Also, psychologically I think it is more "secure", ie. there are no surprises. Companies hire you for a reasonably well defined task and term, hence you are fully aware how much you will earn during this period as well as when you will have to find your next gig.

This is changing. The other week every LN contractor at my company was told they are getting a pay cut. Contractors have also been first to be let go. The last 10 years, yes. The next 10, not so sure.

What is LN?

What I've said above is of course anecdotal based on my circle's and my own experience, but when looking I was never without a new contract longer than a couple of weeks in the last 7 years. The next 10 years... I don't know, however another advantage being a contractor in my opinion is that you have more opportunity to be exposed to and learn new stuff, which helps staying current.

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#152

Post by breitling »

tostitos1979 wrote: post #6
voltagex_ wrote: post #3

I really like Victoria and I hope the town does well out of this. I'm sad that I may not be able to afford to live in Vancouver anytime soon, though.

Toronto is not much better. Million dollar homes in the boonies like Vaughan and Stouffville. It is a disaster for young people starting out. We deferred a home purchase since we were in grad school/there was general talk of a housing bubble since 2006. At this point, we're in the top 1% in terms of income and can barely afford a home. Oh .. and homes are getting multiple offers, buyers are getting into bidding wars…

Consider Durham region...it's a lot more affordable and connectivity to downtown is excellent.

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#153

Post by gyardley »

mcmatterson wrote: post #141
tallanvor wrote: post #47

I see this as a problem all over the world. - San Francisco, Seattle, New York, Vancouver, London, Oslo... Really the list could go on for quite a while. So many of these cities feel like they have to retain their "identity" or the "feel" of the town, so they set restrictions that make it very hard to develop properties that can hold more people. The result is always the same: continually increasing prices in the cen…

It's telling that Toronto isn't on that list. It's taken me a decade of living here to really understand what makes this place tick, and one thing that's become clear is that a near universal friendliness to newcomers in both word and deed is a huge part of Toronto's identity. I've said it before in many conversations on the topic, but I think that this pervasive openness is going to do nothing but help Toronto's pla…

I suspect Toronto's the most multicultural, international city on earth, and it's high on my list of places I'd live if I wasn't married to someone with zero tolerance for snow.

Unfortunately, Toronto still manages to suffer from a god-awful housing market made worse by insane NIMBYism in the most affluent and attractive neighborhoods. I think "I got mine, time to dig a moat around it" is a pretty universal phenomenon.

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#154

Post by branchless »

pwm wrote: post #151
branchless wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is changing. The other week every LN contractor at my company was told they are getting a pay cut. Contractors have also been first to be let go. The last 10 years, yes. The next 10, not so sure.

What is LN? What I've said above is of course anecdotal based on my circle's and my own experience, but when looking I was never without a new contract longer than a couple of weeks in the last 7 years. The next 10 years... I don't know, however another advantage being a contractor in my opinion is that you have more opportunity to be exposed to and learn new stuff, which helps staying current.

London. Agreed, next 10 years who knows. 7 years is interesting because it's just not long enough.

Pre 2008 I was surrounded by contractors all citing the benefits of the extra money. Then things thinned out. I remember one day looking up and I was sat with loads of empty seats around me and I realised just how many contractors they had let go over a period of time.

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#155

Post by mtviewdave »

branchless wrote: post #142
mtviewdave wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Every bank is sound until land prices go into reverse. Generalize that to building prices, and if true, that's going to make it very difficult to use construction to lower housing prices. Banks aren't going to lend for construction if they think making loans is going to threaten the bank's own soundness. Or to put it another way, if falling housing prices add unacceptable risk to construction loans, then the banks e…

You are treating it as a big brain. It's split many ways. There are many banks, they don't behave as a mass. Some will lend because they want / need the income. Secondly most lending decisions are made by employees. Their interests are not aligned with the long-term health of the bank. They want their bonus. Who cares if it blows up in 10 years time? We've seen this in 2008. Banks behaved insanely. Finally if banks w…

>We've seen this in 2008. Banks behaved insanely.

It's not 2008 anymore. Things have changed substantially. Banks became much more risk-adverse in the wake of the burst of the housing bubble and subsequent economic crisis. The era in which loan officers are incentivized to skip risk evaluation has passed.

My point was not that there's some grand conspiracy among banks. Merely that any loan that uses real estate as collateral will be riskier if real estate prices are declining, than if real estate prices are increasing. That means that construction loans are going to be harder to get when prices are decreasing. Which suggests that the ability to use construction loans to lower the absolute price of housing is self-limiting.

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#156

Post by justinhj »

Reason077 wrote: post #145

If millennial are fleeing Vancouver for London because they can't afford housing, as this article suggests, they're going to be very disappointed with our housing prices!

Ha. That's true but as a Londoner living in Vancouver I can tell you that for young people here moving to London would be exciting and educational compared to staying at home for the same money, so many would leave for that reason.

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#157

Post by vehementi »

imrehg wrote: post #26
lewisl9029 wrote: post #12

As someone who's lived in Vancouver for more than 10 years, then went to Waterloo for school (and lived in Toronto for most of my co-ops/internships), I think we Canadians should be more worried about highly educated millennials fleeing Canada entirely. Everybody I know from school who were offered the option to work in the US have picked up their Canadian degrees and left. To the Canadian tech industry: How are you…

I think that's an issue everywhere in the world. I'm living in Taiwan (not from here originally), and the tech scene is really being hollowed out for years if not decades. The really best, brightest, and most motivated people are already working abroad. "Humiliating" is a strong word, but the more I think about it, the more apt it feels, there should be a lot more reward for the good techies here (there are some left…

There will always be people who work for unjustifiably lower salaries

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#158

Post by justinhj »

kspaans wrote: post #91
zeemonkee3 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the question that Canadian companies genuinely can't pay more, or just that they won't, for whatever reason?

Or maybe that Canadians are willing to work for less? (I remember reading an article that auto manufacturers charge more for the same cars in Canada simply because Canadians will pay more.)

Local salaries are driven by supply and demand. Tech workers in Vancouver are paid very well compared to other workers in the city. If all tech workers suddenly demanded 20% raises I guess it would happen, but at lowered profit margin for the employers who may end up relocating.

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#159

Post by TimCinel »

ruffrey wrote: post #144

With online collaboration tools really taking off, especially with WebRTC currently on billions of devices, I have this unfounded belief that city centers will become less important over the next decade. There will always be work which is better suited to in-person setups. Maybe it is more of a hope than a belief - but having a decentralized workforce has implications for cost of living and quality of life that are e…

I have the same belief, but for a different reason. I think autonomous vehicles will make city centers become less important.

Re: Millennials Flee Vancouver for More Affordable Cities

#160

Post by [deleted] »

ruffrey wrote: post #144

With online collaboration tools really taking off, especially with WebRTC currently on billions of devices, I have this unfounded belief that city centers will become less important over the next decade. There will always be work which is better suited to in-person setups. Maybe it is more of a hope than a belief - but having a decentralized workforce has implications for cost of living and quality of life that are e…

[deleted]
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