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Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

bbc.com

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Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#151

Post by mike_hearn »

mike_hearn wrote: post #131
chrisseaton wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If she's come to the conclusion that she doesn't need any of the services that she gets as a citizen, for the reasons you've given, then why is she still a citizen? Either it's worth it (including any emotional attachment) when you balance it against the cost or it isn't. But if she chooses to retain her citizenship then she's incurring a potential cost to the US, which surely it's reasonable for her to contribute to…

What costs? If she doesn't live there she imposes no costs on the USA. If she ever returned and started imposing costs, she'd also start paying taxes. Why is she still a citizen? The article says she's in the process of renouncing. Not done already probably because: • She might one day need to spend time with family or elderly relatives, even if she'd prefer to stay abroad. • The USA does not allow you to give up you…

Oh, and I forgot the main one of course - lots of places won't let you become stateless. You need to be a citizen of another country already to give up your US citizenship. And that, in turn, is a very long term and difficult process.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#152

Post by masklinn »

Vespasian wrote: post #141
masklinn wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> E.g. you can visit the US with a German passport for 3 months for a holiday but it's extremely difficult to get a visa to move there indefinitely. You do realise that works the same way for everybody and US visa-free entry is not a residence permit right? For instance as a US citizen you'd get visa-free entry to Iceland or Japan or New Zealand but can only stay for 90 days.

Well it works that way for everybody with a "good" passport. This is why the list is there in the first place ;) Things get a lot more difficult if you have for example an Egyptian passport.

Sure but that's not the point I'm arguing (or arguing against).

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#154

Post by atlbeer »

klunger wrote: post #147
timthelion wrote: post #24

I am an American living in Prague and will be among those to give up their citizenship. The new FBAR requirements and the recently pushed through changes that require foreign banks to report are really a huge burden. It is a significant legal risk to be an American overseas. The fines are insane for failiure to report, even if you owe no taxes! You can easilly land yourself with a $20 000 - $80 000 fine for having a…

I am an American in Norway... I thought you only had to file FATCA for bank accounts that had more than $10,000 USD in them at some point in the past year. Not a few hundred. Are you sure about that? (if so, oh sh*t)

You have to fail FACTA regardless if you hold an overseas account. If you hold less than $10k USD than it's a few check boxes and takes less than 10 minutes

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#155

Post by dalke »

robk wrote: post #101
timthelion wrote: post #24

I am an American living in Prague and will be among those to give up their citizenship. The new FBAR requirements and the recently pushed through changes that require foreign banks to report are really a huge burden. It is a significant legal risk to be an American overseas. The fines are insane for failiure to report, even if you owe no taxes! You can easilly land yourself with a $20 000 - $80 000 fine for having a…

Have you come across anyone who has been fined under this law? I have not and know many people who are rubbish at filing on time or even in the same year. I've not seen any enforcement commensurate with $20k fines willy nilly. Not that I like the law, I've just not seen it enforced.

For FBAR? There's an amnesty program in place which was introduced during the summer of 2014, which is better than then fines possible under the voluntary disclosure program. See http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2014/06/18/irs-announ... . That reduced the outrage some.

Before then, http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-taxes-foreign-idUSTRE7... reports that after 26 months of work, and at one time with a likely penalty of $172,000, the final penalty was $25,000 total. Does that count as "come across"?

Even without paying the fine, http://www.thelocal.se/20120306/39522 reports "while Pamela may no longer be facing a seven-figure penalty, she's already racked up a bill of $40,000 in accountants' and lawyers' fees." Most of the cases I've heard of (the Reuters piece includes more) are of people who paid penalties under the voluntary disclosure program or had to spend a lot on accountant fees to get things straightened out.

And there's still the stress of worrying if a minor mistake out of ignorance when I send the information to my accountant might still end up with huge penalties in the future.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#156

Post by [deleted] »

magicGLASSman wrote: post #99
maxerize wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I constantly have to remind myself that people who browse HN learn strongly libertarian and are mostly well-off white males. Otherwise, saying that the US quality of life exceeds that of the UK, Germany or Switzerland is just blatantly false.

saying "blatantly false" does not make something factual. Please provide and argument with evidence instead of blanket racist remarks.

[deleted]

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#157

Post by chrisseaton »

mike_hearn wrote: post #151
mike_hearn wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What costs? If she doesn't live there she imposes no costs on the USA. If she ever returned and started imposing costs, she'd also start paying taxes. Why is she still a citizen? The article says she's in the process of renouncing. Not done already probably because: • She might one day need to spend time with family or elderly relatives, even if she'd prefer to stay abroad. • The USA does not allow you to give up you…

Oh, and I forgot the main one of course - lots of places won't let you become stateless. You need to be a citizen of another country already to give up your US citizenship. And that, in turn, is a very long term and difficult process.

This thread was originally about 'how the hell does the US think it has the right to tax people who haven't lived there for over 30 years?' You or I may disagree with those issues, but those people having rights as a US citizen and access to US consulate services may be why the US thinks it has a right to tax them.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#158

Post by timthelion »

klunger wrote: post #147
timthelion wrote: post #24

I am an American living in Prague and will be among those to give up their citizenship. The new FBAR requirements and the recently pushed through changes that require foreign banks to report are really a huge burden. It is a significant legal risk to be an American overseas. The fines are insane for failiure to report, even if you owe no taxes! You can easilly land yourself with a $20 000 - $80 000 fine for having a…

I am an American in Norway... I thought you only had to file FATCA for bank accounts that had more than $10,000 USD in them at some point in the past year. Not a few hundred. Are you sure about that? (if so, oh sh*t)

It's a bit more complicated than that. Right now, you have to file for every bank account you own (or have signature authority for) if the combined worth is more than $10,000. So it's not as bad as I wrote at first, and I appoligise for that, I had forgotten about that factor. But it still surprises people.

Edit:

Oh, and the worth is calculated as the maximum value during the year. So if you get a contract filled for $10 000 and someone wires you the money, even if you imediately pay the rent and therefore have no money in the account, you still have to report the account.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#159

Post by sk3l »

If you live abroad & give up your citizenship, I think you should sign a waiver clause giving US government release of liability for any security, diplomatic services, basically anything you'd ever ask for. The US is off the hook for your safety and comfort, forever. Perhaps this is already part of the process, not sure.

IMO, depending on where you are living abroad, that might give one misgivings about turning in ones passport.

Just my 2 satoshis.

Re: Why expat Americans are giving up their passports

#160

Post by saalweachter »

cpursley wrote: post #64
madaxe_again wrote: post #17

So, I know a us born billionaire who rescinded his citizenship last year to avoid fatca. He has successfully evaded both the US and UK tax authorities to the tune of half a billion or so, he tells me. The guy gives crazy amounts to philanthropic causes instead. He doesn't want his hard earned wealth pissed away by clueless bureaucrats. So. Anyone who tells you fatca has been a success is full of it. It penalises "nor…

> The guy gives crazy amounts to philanthropic causes instead. This. As a someone who leans libertarian, folks give me the "you must be greedy" look when I mention that I have an issue with income taxation. Not at all - like your friend, I'm rather selective about where I donate my money - to causes that matter to me. I'm a generous person and consider the coercion of the state to be neither altruistic nor efficient.

I'm honestly more offended by the implications that bureuacracy is a poor value proposition. Social security has minuscule overhead, government healthcare has far lower $ / covered individual than most private insurances with equal or greater satisfaction rates, while a number of private philanthropies piss away a large % of their receipts on fundraising & administrative overheads.
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