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Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

thenational.scot

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Re: Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

#151

Post by dragonwriter »

tptacek wrote: post #65
mc32 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Choosing Scotland over the more usual U.K. or British, is peculiar. It's like saying a Russian aircraft violated Alaskan airspace rather than US airspace. This choice is possibly indicative of other subsurface politics.

Scotland is the UK . Scotland's airspace is managed by the UK central government. This is like saying "flying over Maine, rather than over the more typical USA, is suggestive of subsurface politics".

> Scotland is the UK.

Scotland is a country in the UK (as are England, Wales, and Northern Ireland.)

Its also a country with a fairly strong independence movement and which is frequently at odds with the central government on important policy issues.

Re: Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

#152

Post by tptacek »

dragonwriter wrote: post #151
tptacek wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scotland is the UK . Scotland's airspace is managed by the UK central government. This is like saying "flying over Maine, rather than over the more typical USA, is suggestive of subsurface politics".

> Scotland is the UK. Scotland is a country in the UK (as are England, Wales, and Northern Ireland.) Its also a country with a fairly strong independence movement and which is frequently at odds with the central government on important policy issues.

Yeah, if you look downthread, like I said, I misread this comment.

Re: Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

#153

Post by School-Cotton »

dragonwriter wrote: post #149
School-Cotton wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alaska and Maine have different legal systems too. Scotland is culturally considered a country, sure, but I'm curious whether that has any concrete meaning.

"country" in the UK has a meaning not entirely dissimilar to "state" in the US (in both cases, this is somewhat distinct from the usual use of the term internationally.) The term does, in fact, have concrete meaning.

Sure, what I meant to say was really "there is no concrete meaning to them being 'countries' as opposed to 'states' or 'autonomous/semi-sovereign provinces'".

Re: Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

#154

Post by oceanstone »

grandalf wrote: post #120

If it weren't for the mistreatment of Bradley Manning, I'd consider US Government attempts to capture Snowden somewhat reasonable. If (in hindsight) there had been any high level response acknowledging the inappropriateness of any of the revealed programs, and attempting to fix or impose accountability measures on covert programs, I'd feel reassured that the bad behavior evidenced by the leaked information was an ano…

> A principled president would have owned up to the misconduct and taken steps to regain the public trust. A principled president would be ashamed of the chilling effect on journalists.

There were only two Senators who voted against the "Freedom" Act [1] and also supported defensible net neutrality [2]. One of them is now a presidential candidate.

Last May, they wrote: "I voted against the Patriot Act every time, and it still needs major reform." [3]

[1] http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_c...

[2] http://www.markey.senate.gov/news/press-releases/to-protect-...

[3] http://time.com/3850839/bernie-sanders-usa-patriot-act/

Re: Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

#155

Post by dragonwriter »

PavlovsCat wrote: post #132
grandalf wrote: post #120

If it weren't for the mistreatment of Bradley Manning, I'd consider US Government attempts to capture Snowden somewhat reasonable. If (in hindsight) there had been any high level response acknowledging the inappropriateness of any of the revealed programs, and attempting to fix or impose accountability measures on covert programs, I'd feel reassured that the bad behavior evidenced by the leaked information was an ano…

> A principled president This is a bit off-topic, but I saw something today I couldn't help but think of when I saw that phrase. Even though Hillary Clinton is not every president and may be have been too defeatist (or too obedient) when she said this, my "point" is basically, if even going up against hundreds of millions of dollars seems "out of the question", well, what about the really nasty and actually powerful…

> Even though Hillary Clinton is not every president

Or, as yet (and possibly ever) any president...

Re: Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

#156

Post by kafkaesq »

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #39

Shouldn't that be "British" airspace? If the Scots don't like it, they should declare independence (but that failed) and maybe build an air defense network to shoot down unidentified possible CIA rendition jets (not very feasible).

The "British" empire collapsed 70 years ago. Enough already.

Re: Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

#157

Post by MawNicker »

infinite8s wrote: post #130
tptacek wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no precedent for that in American history, though, and while the CIA torture program was unmistakably evil, it's far from the worst thing that has happened in the US over the last 100 years.

What would you rank higher?

MKUltra. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra

Re: Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

#158

Post by [deleted] »

grandalf wrote: post #120

If it weren't for the mistreatment of Bradley Manning, I'd consider US Government attempts to capture Snowden somewhat reasonable. If (in hindsight) there had been any high level response acknowledging the inappropriateness of any of the revealed programs, and attempting to fix or impose accountability measures on covert programs, I'd feel reassured that the bad behavior evidenced by the leaked information was an ano…

[deleted]

Re: Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

#159

Post by jccc »

tptacek wrote: post #150
jccc wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the USG also have an interest in (c) the ability to prosecute and punish Snowden in such a conspicuous and forceful way that anyone else in a position similar to his would be frightened enough not to take any action similar to his? Snowden and his informal team of assistants Do you believe Greenwald, et al. are collaborators and therefore should be prosecuted?

No. I really dislike Greenwald and, to a lesser extent, The Intercept as a publication, and think they spread more disinformation than journalism, but it's hard for me to see what crime any of them could possibly have committed. (I answered your first question upthread).

You must be aware that people actually have called the Snowden journalists collaborators who should be prosecuted, that this was in fact a major issue in how the story has been received.

Why would you call them "his informal team of assistants?"

Re: Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

#160

Post by junto »

infinite8s wrote: post #130
tptacek wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no precedent for that in American history, though, and while the CIA torture program was unmistakably evil, it's far from the worst thing that has happened in the US over the last 100 years.

What would you rank higher?

They have a pretty nasty history in central and south America.

The CIA have been plugging away for decades, supporting right wing paramilitaries and anyone that could help them dissuade any kind of social of left leaning politics from their 'backyard', and they didn't care who died in the process.

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