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Marvin Minsky dies at 88

nytimes.com

151–160 of 188 posts

Re: Marvin Minsky dies at 88

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always loved this TED talk of his https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYsTv-ap3XQ

This is not the Prof Minsky I remember from 1970s where I was a MIT student. His mind was laser sharp then and could drill into the core of any problem.

It doesn't look to me like he's unfocused or forgetful on the video. What are you referring to exactly?

Re: Marvin Minsky dies at 88

#152
post #24
post #4

In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6. "What are you doing?", asked Minsky. "I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-tac-toe", Sussman replied. "Why is the net wired randomly?", asked Minsky. "I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play", Sussman said. Minsky then shut his eyes. "Why do you close your eyes?" Sussman asked his teacher…

It is now several decades later. Do TensorFlow/CNN builders use random initial configurations, or custom designed stuctures?

There is another deeper meaning in this koan.

It's related to the No Free Lunch Theorems. It basically says that if an algorithm performs well on a certain class of learning, searching or optimization problems, then it necessarily pays for that with degraded performance on the set of all remaining problems.

In other words, you always need bias to learn meaningfully. More you have (the right kind of) bias, faster you can learn the subject in hand and slower in all other kinds. In neural networks the bias is not just the weights. There is bias in the selection of random distribution of the network weights (uniform, Gaussian etc.) There is bias in the network topology. There is bias in the learning algorithm, activation function, etc.

Convolutional neural networks are good example. They have very strong bias baked into them and it works really well.

Re: Marvin Minsky dies at 88

#153
post #91

RIP. I will always hold him as an inspiration. Of interest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neats_vs._scruffies I find it interesting because Minsky did a lot of the foundational work in Neural Network research yet he philosophically identified as the opposite on the Neat/Scruffy spectrum of most NN researchers today. Much like Bayes, I think there is some immense wisdom from his research that will not even be acknowle…

I think that's interesting as well. I would have guessed he was a Neat from his talks and his admiration of AGI because it implies he agrees there will have to be a succinct theory of general intelligence/consciousness.

It depends a lot on where you put the limit between neats and scruffies. I personally would have put him straight in the center, as more of a pragmatist. One of the big criticisms he had (from my memory of the Society of Mind lectures) is that some researchers spent too much time trying to find an overarching, simplistic theory of mind (some sort of physics-envy), which would put him in the scruffy camp. I do also remember him saying that trying to replicate the brain was pointless and that people should focus on trying to replicate its function rather than its architecture, which I am assuming is a criticism of the connectionist approaches, which would put him in the neat camp.

Re: Marvin Minsky dies at 88

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about a cybernetic creature that is 30% Minsky? Is it much worse then current approach - passing down DNA and spending 18 years on training?

I'd find the thought of only having 30% of your brain left functioning pretty scary - rather be dead than barely alive. Everything eventually ends, I don't see the appeal in pushing that only to suffer.

30% Minsky does not imply that there isn't a fully functioning intelligence, only that a mere 30% of Minsky is part of them.

Re: Marvin Minsky dies at 88

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about a cybernetic creature that is 30% Minsky? Is it much worse then current approach - passing down DNA and spending 18 years on training?

I'd find the thought of only having 30% of your brain left functioning pretty scary - rather be dead than barely alive. Everything eventually ends, I don't see the appeal in pushing that only to suffer.

I think you overestimate the amount of brain matter required to maintain personality.

It is possible to lose an entire brain hemisphere and retain complete functionality (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemispherectomy).

There is a huge amount of redundancy in the brain, and most brain matter is only concerned with I/O, signal processing, and life support. It's one of the reasons I have a lot of hope that cryonics is feasible -- massive loss of brain tissue need not mean irreversible loss of an individual.

Re: Marvin Minsky dies at 88

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately to my eyes the comment that dang thanked looked like it was a rather passive aggressive put down. Especially in the context that the OP was not being petty but was raising an important point in a measured way. EDIT Civility is important but it should not be confused for everyone having the same point of view on a topic. And censorship by "civility" causes people to not join discussions. When I come to H…

Think about it this way... Imagine you were the caretaker of a public establishment like a school or business, and news broke of the passing of an eminent person who was deeply respected and admired by many of the people who frequent that establishment. So you went and lowered the flag to half-mast, because that is the customary and respectful thing to do. And whilst most people appreciated the gesture and felt comfo…

I can see this from both POV...

Just reverse that situation and imagine that you are a member of a public establishment and that when certain people you particularly respect pass that public establishment does not follow its usual customs.

Re: Marvin Minsky dies at 88

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think about it this way... Imagine you were the caretaker of a public establishment like a school or business, and news broke of the passing of an eminent person who was deeply respected and admired by many of the people who frequent that establishment. So you went and lowered the flag to half-mast, because that is the customary and respectful thing to do. And whilst most people appreciated the gesture and felt comfo…

I can see this from both POV... Just reverse that situation and imagine that you are a member of a public establishment and that when certain people you particularly respect pass that public establishment does not follow its usual customs.

If/when it happens, you'd politely discuss it with the caretaker and others in the establishment (just like what happens here when someone says "hey can we have the black bar?"), and you'd then respect the consensus outcome. And if the caretaker and the other members rebuked such a request that was important to you, it would be fair enough to express your feelings then and there, and discuss it to the point of resolution.

That isn't what's happened here.

Seriously, civil behaviour around a bereavement is just not that hard.

Respectfully, I won't be commenting further on this thread.

Re: Marvin Minsky dies at 88

#158
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Found this original version copied from this story (original source is a dead link) [1] "So Sussman began working on a program. Not long after, this odd-looking bald guy came over. Sussman figured the guy was going to boot him out, but instead the man sat down, asking, “Hey, what are you doing?” Sussman talked over his program with the man, Marvin Minsky. At one point in the discussion, Sussman told Minsky that he wa…

That sounds like the version told in Levy's Hackers. Maybe someone in HN-land can verify that; I can't find my copy.

Verified. Chapter 6, page 117 in my paperback edition.

Re: Marvin Minsky dies at 88

#159
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Resurrection from cerebral hemorrhage seems unlikely, though. How would they do it - wash it out? A brain that thought about the brain for a lifetime, wiped out in minutes.

I know, it's very unfortunate. And who knows, maybe the damage is irreversible even with potential and futuristic medical advances, simply due to information loss. But, as someone who plans on being cryo-preserved eventually, I'd say that whatever chance there is of reviving whatever remains of this individual, it should be taken. I'd want to live in the future, even if that meant not having my full cognitive abiliti…

You just made me remember a scifi story I read probably 10-15 years ago that I really wish I could recall the name of, as I'd love to read it again. In the story a man is awakened from an especially long cryogenic sleep, and his brain was implanted into a new body since the old one was no longer viable. In addition, he was given a brain implant with a screen in his eye that could be activated by a couple of quick blinks. At first he has the mind of a child, but slowly regains his faculties over many weeks or months, with the aid of the implant.

Re: Marvin Minsky dies at 88

#160
Danny Hillis introduced Marvin at the MIT Media Lab's 30th anniversary in October 2015, where they both participated in a remarkable panel discussion.

Though not as strong and fast-talking as he once was, Marvin's humor and wisdom shine through.

Here's a link to the video: http://www.media.mit.edu/video/view/ml30-2015-10-30-01

Danny begins his introduction at about 41:29.

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