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Coding is boring, unless

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Re: Coding is boring, unless

#151

Post by nommm-nommm »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #129
nommm-nommm wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do webdev and I solve real and unique business problems. The web is just a convenient frontend for our users. Our backend has complicated data processing and solves unique problems. I know you said most and not all but just giving a counter example.

It's not really a counter example because TeMPOraL's claim applied to the majority. Following the resulting advice of using whatever gets the job done quickly (eg copy/paste) will pay off for the vast majority of developers in that space. Your example is a red herring here as the comment just wasn't about the minority doing original stuff. Good for you that you ended up in one of those positions, though. Probably enj…

I don't think its the majority outside of Silicon Valley though. I am very far removed from the Valley so the examples given look nothing like I've personally seen anywhere but I can see how that can be the case in the Valley from what I hear/see in the "news."

I've personally never seen anything that can be described as "regurgitating the same CRUD for different customers" in my career as a webdev and certainly not 90%. There is of course wiring standard components together but that's surface level stuff, the guts are not standard components.

That's just my experiences for what it's worth.

And, yes, I'm very blessed to enjoy my job and believe me I don't take that for granted.

Going back in the thread I honestly don't think that reaching for Google and SO as your first impulse will deteriorate your ability to find your own solutions in the long run. Not by itself anyways. If the problem is standard then those are not problems you should be implementing your own solutions for anyways and Google/SO are great for finding answers to standard problems. Copy-pasta is great for syntax and boilerplate code.

If the problem is not standard I learn from Google, I don't just copy-pasta, I look at how other people have solved similar problems and use that as a basis of creating a new solution.

I can see how people who don't want (or can't) think for themselves can fall into the copy-pasta whatever they happen find without truly understanding. In that case Google/SO isn't the problem - it just makes the problem more visible. These people will never be good engineers.

Re: Coding is boring, unless

#152

Post by osullivj »

lordnacho wrote: post #52

How does salary come into this? You'd think people would be able to stand the boredom a bit better if they got paid more. For instance, I know people in banking who are getting 1200GBP a day doing nothing special in some Java CRUD. But it's not that easy to find something interesting like what you read about in startup land that pays nearly as much.

Blimey! Who's paying 1200 for Java CRUD? I get plenty of agent calls for London banking gigs, and 700 is the top end I tend to hear.

Re: Coding is boring, unless

#153

Post by nickpsecurity »

nommm-nommm wrote: post #151
nickpsecurity wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really a counter example because TeMPOraL's claim applied to the majority. Following the resulting advice of using whatever gets the job done quickly (eg copy/paste) will pay off for the vast majority of developers in that space. Your example is a red herring here as the comment just wasn't about the minority doing original stuff. Good for you that you ended up in one of those positions, though. Probably enj…

I don't think its the majority outside of Silicon Valley though. I am very far removed from the Valley so the examples given look nothing like I've personally seen anywhere but I can see how that can be the case in the Valley from what I hear/see in the "news." I've personally never seen anything that can be described as "regurgitating the same CRUD for different customers" in my career as a webdev and certainly not…

"I don't think its the majority outside of Silicon Valley though. I am very far removed from the Valley so the examples given look nothing like I've personally seen anywhere but I can see how that can be the case in the Valley from what I hear/see in the "news.""

Whereas I hadn't heard of the problem in the Valley as they're always riding one wave or fad after another. The people that report the issues I described are almost exclusively outside the Valley or startup scene mostly working for mid-sized to large companies without much IT innovation. Reading comments on many programming and job sites makes me think they're the majority (or just vocal majority).

Might be different in your area or the types of companies you work for. Most I know in banking, retail, logistics, manufacturing, hospitality, and services firms... a huge chunk of job market... do CRUD style apps and have lots of legacy systems they expand on rather than replace. Lots of boring work.

Does vary by industry, area, and technology stack, though. Interesting to see yours is mostly interesting, custom code instead of throw-together apps many get stuck with. Honestly, though, I think the SO use is less about CRUD than the information overload of various libraries and frameworks where people constantly run into issues due to lack of understanding/experience.

Re: Coding is boring, unless

#154

Post by rorykoehler »

babuskov wrote: post #131
bluedino wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Are there people who get paid to do things that simple that they can be copied and pasted from Stack Overflow? Have you been on SO?

SO had a great year 1, and maybe year 2. You know, when real questions were asked. Now you have beginners asking so simple questions it's both funny and tragic at the same time. Here's the first question in the list when I opened the site today: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/33989450/mysql-joins-on-t... Yeah. That guy is one of those who just ask others how to to their job and then copy/paste it. Who answers suc…

It's a platform for learning. The asker is a beginner. There is nothing wrong with that and someone asking with the intention of learning should never be looked down upon. If you find it so easy why are you even looking at that question? Your google-fu is sub-optimal?

Re: Coding is boring, unless

#155

Post by babuskov »

rorykoehler wrote: post #154
babuskov wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SO had a great year 1, and maybe year 2. You know, when real questions were asked. Now you have beginners asking so simple questions it's both funny and tragic at the same time. Here's the first question in the list when I opened the site today: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/33989450/mysql-joins-on-t... Yeah. That guy is one of those who just ask others how to to their job and then copy/paste it. Who answers suc…

It's a platform for learning. The asker is a beginner. There is nothing wrong with that and someone asking with the intention of learning should never be looked down upon. If you find it so easy why are you even looking at that question? Your google-fu is sub-optimal?

I'm not looking down on anything or anyone. I'm just analyzing the state of SO today versus the first few years when it started.

As for the question, you obviously didn't read what I wrote carefully. I get served a full page of such questions every time I open the site. Finding an interesting question has became a tedious job and that's why I don't even bother to visit the site anymore.

Once again, I'm not even sorry about that. It freed a lot of my time - I rarely visit the site, but I'm still ranked in top 2% users, so you can guess how active I was before.

Re: Coding is boring, unless

#156

Post by rorykoehler »

babuskov wrote: post #155
rorykoehler wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a platform for learning. The asker is a beginner. There is nothing wrong with that and someone asking with the intention of learning should never be looked down upon. If you find it so easy why are you even looking at that question? Your google-fu is sub-optimal?

I'm not looking down on anything or anyone. I'm just analyzing the state of SO today versus the first few years when it started. As for the question, you obviously didn't read what I wrote carefully. I get served a full page of such questions every time I open the site. Finding an interesting question has became a tedious job and that's why I don't even bother to visit the site anymore. Once again, I'm not even sorry…

Fair enough. I find it a godsend. Nothing wrong with copy paste if it brings you forward faster and you take time to understand why it works. For architecture etc it's pretty useless but for the rest it is a very helpful tool.

Re: Coding is boring, unless

#157

Post by lordnacho »

osullivj wrote: post #152
lordnacho wrote: post #52

How does salary come into this? You'd think people would be able to stand the boredom a bit better if they got paid more. For instance, I know people in banking who are getting 1200GBP a day doing nothing special in some Java CRUD. But it's not that easy to find something interesting like what you read about in startup land that pays nearly as much.

Blimey! Who's paying 1200 for Java CRUD? I get plenty of agent calls for London banking gigs, and 700 is the top end I tend to hear.

Well the agent eats a fair chunk. I suppose you need to be somewhat senior as well.

Figures are quoted to me by a PM who oversees some devs in a well known Swiss bank in Canary Wharf.

Re: Coding is boring, unless

#158

Post by osullivj »

lordnacho wrote: post #157
osullivj wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blimey! Who's paying 1200 for Java CRUD? I get plenty of agent calls for London banking gigs, and 700 is the top end I tend to hear.

Well the agent eats a fair chunk. I suppose you need to be somewhat senior as well. Figures are quoted to me by a PM who oversees some devs in a well known Swiss bank in Canary Wharf.

Thanks. I have seen four figure contractor rates at a well known British bank on CW for senior team lead devs. And I've got first hand experience of four figure rate cards as a consultant with a "boutique" consultancy myself. I know that day rates for Python contractors at banks and hedge funds are healthy recently as I get a lot of agent calls. I guess it's an effect of two things: firstly, a lot of the banking work is driven by regulation, and so is really boring. Secondly, lots of startups drawing the best devs with decent salary + equity.
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