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Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

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Re: Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

#151

Post by mst »

steveklabnik wrote: post #149
mst wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's really cute. I hope, however, that you can understand from the POV of somebody who keeps being driven off ruby by ruby being too much work, that "you could make it less work by first porting all the perl5 libraries that make perl5 OO more pleasant" isn't really a convincing solution :)

One of my Twitter followers posted a gist: https://gist.github.com/paulodiniz/39698ac1fe5f62e3180e Sure, I was just addressing the "I don't know how to do that." Rails offer this for models in certain circumstances, for example.

That's very cute.

Yeah, I was responding to a post that claimed it was trivial; that's cute but not trivial - although it does demonstrate that using 'alias' to rename isn't necessary, which is nice to know.

I can absolutely see how I'd turn this into a full Class::Method::Modifiers re-implementation, so I'll totally stipulate to 'trivial if' :D

Re: Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

#152

Post by Mithaldu »

ionforce wrote: post #146
mikekchar wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perl is awesome for writing big programs in. One of the things that people find frustrating about Perl is its expressiveness -- that is, there are many different ways of doing the same thing. The result is sometimes that you get 100 different people doing things 100 different ways. This is not so much a problem with the language as it is with programmers not learning to agree on a set of idioms that they will use for…

> Perl is awesome for writing big programs in. This isn't even remotely true. No static types, no thank you. Runtime errors due to misspelled methods? Missing hash keys? Hilarious. Boy, I hope this scalar isn't undefined!

You don't write a lot of tests, do you?

Re: Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

#153

Post by jedharris »

jedharris wrote: post #147

My sense, playing with Perl 6, is that it could become a "pro tool" -- very deep and powerful. It needs to mature some (though it is very solid already) and to grow its ecosystem (though it can run much of CPAN via Inline::Perl5). Those who want to play can install from http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/ Larry's talk was a lot of fun, especially the way he zipped around between vi and terminal windows -- no need fo…

A couple of other things that haven't been much highlighted:

- Perl 6 right now runs very well on two back ends: a custom VM and the JVM. It is spinning up a Javascript back end, I think primarily for NodeJS.

- Concrete representations are carefully separated from core semantics, so Perl 6 currently supports native values from C, Perl 5, Python, etc. It should be able to support native arrays as required for high performance scientific computing etc.

Re: Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

#154

Post by Mithaldu »

oldmanjay wrote: post #28

I haven't looked, but I really hope Perl 6 held on to the 50 different ways to do any one thing. Pulling out my hair in frustration from trying to deal with Perl written by other people saved me all manner of haircut money in the 90s.

If you had tried to invest a little time to actually learn Perl, you might still have a beautiful mane on your head.

Re: Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

#155

Post by eru »

Rotten194 wrote: post #105
py3kthrowa wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or until you trip over the API differences between str and bytes in Python 3 that do not exist in Python 2 (because str == bytes in Python 2). Chiefly, printf-style formatting... >>> b"%u" % 5 Traceback (most recent call last): File " ", line 1, in TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for %: 'bytes' and 'int'

Why are you using % at all? It should have been deprecated years ago.

Why? What are the benefits? % can have as much information about the string and the arguments as .format, can't it?

If I remember right, % used to be deprecated in Python 3, but was undeprecated again by popular demand.

Re: Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

#156

Post by Zelphyr »

Mithaldu wrote: post #154
oldmanjay wrote: post #28

I haven't looked, but I really hope Perl 6 held on to the 50 different ways to do any one thing. Pulling out my hair in frustration from trying to deal with Perl written by other people saved me all manner of haircut money in the 90s.

If you had tried to invest a little time to actually learn Perl, you might still have a beautiful mane on your head.

I suspect a lot of people didn't take the time to actually learn Perl which is why there's so much "there's-more-than-one-way-to-do-it" Perl code in the wild.

For whatever reason, I went the PHP route and I can say from nearly 20 years experience that PHP has the same problem even if it doesn't have the same philosophical approaches as Perl. Too many people who never actually learned the language producing near unmaintainable code.

Re: Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

#157

Post by Mithaldu »

Zelphyr wrote: post #156
Mithaldu wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you had tried to invest a little time to actually learn Perl, you might still have a beautiful mane on your head.

I suspect a lot of people didn't take the time to actually learn Perl which is why there's so much "there's-more-than-one-way-to-do-it" Perl code in the wild. For whatever reason, I went the PHP route and I can say from nearly 20 years experience that PHP has the same problem even if it doesn't have the same philosophical approaches as Perl. Too many people who never actually learned the language producing near unmai…

Yep, it is absolutely a problem. I even made http://perl-tutorial.org to battle it somewhat.

The worst part is that people who believe they learned Perl by doing, instead of reading the reference docs and structured introductory texts, believe themselves to know Perl and speak publicly in the belief that the knowledge gained that way represents universal fact.

Re: Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

#158

Post by a3n »

Long ago, Perl as a coding Leatherman, along with C/C++/Java.

Python took Perl's place on my belt. I'm using Python2, because all the reasons everyone else gives, and because it's Python2 at work. I've been wondering when I'd finally decide/be able to move to Python3.

And now I'm rubbing that faint Leatherman imprint on my belt, and wondering if I'll just skip Python3 for Perl6.

Re: Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

#159

Post by mindcrime »

jedharris wrote: post #153
jedharris wrote: post #147

My sense, playing with Perl 6, is that it could become a "pro tool" -- very deep and powerful. It needs to mature some (though it is very solid already) and to grow its ecosystem (though it can run much of CPAN via Inline::Perl5). Those who want to play can install from http://rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/ Larry's talk was a lot of fun, especially the way he zipped around between vi and terminal windows -- no need fo…

A couple of other things that haven't been much highlighted: - Perl 6 right now runs very well on two back ends: a custom VM and the JVM. It is spinning up a Javascript back end, I think primarily for NodeJS. - Concrete representations are carefully separated from core semantics, so Perl 6 currently supports native values from C, Perl 5, Python, etc. It should be able to support native arrays as required for high per…

Whatever happened to the ParrotVM? I always thought that it was somehow intrinsically tied up with Perl6.
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