What we break when we fix ad blocking • Hacker News Board

Re: What we break when we fix ad blocking

#151

Post by lordnacho » Sat, Sep 19, 2015, 8:36 AM UTC

greggman wrote: post #147

MBCook wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Verge has a poll going today asking if you use an ad blocker: "Yes, I want free content and I'll pay the ad blockers" and "No, I want free content and I'll pay the publisher through ads". I'm with you. I didn't use an ad blocker for years. Then I installed a flash blocker because it kept my computer from trying to melt it's self and play video ads while I was trying to read. Then we started to get so many ads tha…

I just mostly avoid sites with crappy ads. If I go to a site with a non skippable video ad I just close the tab. It wasn't that important to begin with. That includes YouTube sometimes. Same with other types of annoying ads. No need for an ad blocker for me so far.

My guess is many people are just like you. Basically, they've already installed ad blockers in their minds. Open article, click x, read article. Or read article, don't look to the left and right. Or see 45 sec countdown video, quit.

That's basically how I browse. The only ads I'm ever interested in turn out to be reminders of things I've looked at, due to how cookies work.

Re: What we break when we fix ad blocking

#152

Post by nl » Sat, Sep 19, 2015, 10:27 AM UTC

eli wrote: post #122

nl wrote: post #116

It's pretty clear to me that the endgame for this is ad-blocking-blockers: You run an ad blocker, then you either pay to visit my site or you disable your ad blocker for my site. That's going to slow down sites even more, but that's the tragedy of the commons: some sites will be obnoxious in the ads they show it forces people to use ad-blockers. That destroys the livelihood of so many people that countermeasures will…

Unless the way the web works fundamentally changes, it will always be easier to block ads than to detect and block adblockers.

Yes, but arguably there is more financial motivation for the publishers. You end up in an arms race.

Re: What we break when we fix ad blocking

#153

Post by emp_zealoth » Sat, Sep 19, 2015, 11:28 AM UTC

bradleyjg wrote: post #112

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you had a plugin that simply blanked the entire page if it contained advertising you'd be acting in a principled fashion aligned with your preferences. As it is you want to have your cake and eat it too. It may be legal and technically possible, but isn't ethical. What you're saying here is that, if you don't like advertising, your only ethical option is to never use the Web again. (Well, I suppose I can read th…

There were options. You could go to concerts, you could listen to the radio. You could go to free concerts in the park. What you couldn't do was listen to the latest Britney album when and wherever you wanted without going and buying the CD or unethically downloading it off of Napster. You could tell yourself that you were perfectly justified in doing so. In fact it was Britney's fault for not coming up with easy way…

But now there is Spotify, and it's getting more money than I'd spend on buying CD's I haven't downloaded any music in years

Re: What we break when we fix ad blocking

#154

Post by jonhohle » Sat, Sep 19, 2015, 12:23 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #108

toothbrush wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that you're right, mostly. Initiatives to pass city laws against advertising do exist, though [1]. I don't live in Grenoble so i cannot comment on how this plays out in practice, but i wish all cities would do that. 1. http://www.euronews.com/2014/11/26/grenoble-europe-s-first-a...

Billboards are illegal in Vermont, Alaska, Hawaii, and Maine.

I wondered how they got around the first amendment - here's more info on that (not specific to those states) - http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/billboards

Re: What we break when we fix ad blocking

#155

Post by jmadsen » Sat, Sep 19, 2015, 12:47 PM UTC

Magazines & newspapers shot themselves in the foot when they ran out to produce free content to "stay in the game" like everyone else.

Their original product was never free, but they didn't think that through. They made most money through ads & classified, but they still charged for the product.

Now they need to figure out how to make each visitor be worth 50 cents or whatever, and they are trying to do it in a way that people were already growing sick of when they started.

---

They should create a system of micropayments where people can have a instantly accessible purse & a page can charge a few cents to few, ranked by content, author, whatever.

they need to start selling their content again.

Re: What we break when we fix ad blocking

#156

Post by DavideNL » Sat, Sep 19, 2015, 12:54 PM UTC

MBCook wrote: post #11

jordigh wrote: post #4

I'm going to keep repeating this because everyone seems to frame the debate in the wrong terms. Ad blocking for me is not about speed or security. Those are just nice side effects. It is also not because I do not want to pay. I don't mind paying. It is because when I'm in the middle of something I do not want to be told to pay someone else for goods I do not need. I don't care how unobtrusive it is (well, if it's onl…

The Verge has a poll going today asking if you use an ad blocker: "Yes, I want free content and I'll pay the ad blockers" and "No, I want free content and I'll pay the publisher through ads". I'm with you. I didn't use an ad blocker for years. Then I installed a flash blocker because it kept my computer from trying to melt it's self and play video ads while I was trying to read. Then we started to get so many ads tha…

> The ad companies need to be less abusive. In the mean time, I'll use an ad blocker.

I agree... a funny example: https://twitter.com/JonyIveParody/status/611482506400014336

Re: What we break when we fix ad blocking

#157

Post by JupiterMoon » Sat, Sep 19, 2015, 1:24 PM UTC

itsybitsycoder wrote: post #85

Mz wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me put that another way: People currently try to monetize by putting ads on their sites. Other people use adblockers, denying them payment but benefitting from their labor. If you want the ads to stop but the labor to continue, you basically desire slave labor from people. I posit that if you are using ad blockers and not also promoting another form of valid monetization, you are, in fact, taking advantage of peo…

But websites don't ask for my consent before they show me ads, and I have no idea what they expect the "price" of an article to be before I click on it, nor what I'll be getting in return. Why does the author of an article have a unilateral right to decide the terms of exchange? Websites are able to detect most ad-blockers these days. If they like, they're welcome to deny me access to their content if they see I've b…

> Websites are able to detect most ad-blockers these days. If they like, they're welcome to deny me access to their content if they see I've blocked the ads.

The better option is to ask the user to turn off their adblocker and explain why (and say that the adverts are vetted for malware properly).

Re: What we break when we fix ad blocking

#158

Post by JupiterMoon » Sat, Sep 19, 2015, 1:25 PM UTC

Mz wrote: post #67

jordigh wrote: post #4

I'm going to keep repeating this because everyone seems to frame the debate in the wrong terms. Ad blocking for me is not about speed or security. Those are just nice side effects. It is also not because I do not want to pay. I don't mind paying. It is because when I'm in the middle of something I do not want to be told to pay someone else for goods I do not need. I don't care how unobtrusive it is (well, if it's onl…

More extremely, I flat out refuse consumerist society whenever possible. None of us needs to be manipulated into buying most of the things ads try to manipulate us to buy. Yet, you are consuming someone else's writing as a minimum. I have taken ads off most of my websites and added a tipping option. I hope that turns out to be successful. I currently don't get enough traffic for it to support me outright. Most people…

Don't writers of most blogs make more money from a mixture of native advertising and affiliate links anyway?

Re: What we break when we fix ad blocking

#159

Post by henriquemaia » Sat, Sep 19, 2015, 1:26 PM UTC

JulianMorrison wrote: post #20

This article assumes that advertisers can get more sophisticated than blockers - I don't agree. With good enough technology, any logo can be snipped out or scribbled over. Any inline, self hosted image can be recognized and removed. Perhaps in future, adblockers will comb through the text of pages and the frames of video and your hero will be drinking "soda" instead of . Heck, one of these days, I want ad blocking gl…

(They Live, 1988, Sunglasses scene)

Re: What we break when we fix ad blocking

#160

Post by stevesearer » Sat, Sep 19, 2015, 1:39 PM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #151

greggman wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just mostly avoid sites with crappy ads. If I go to a site with a non skippable video ad I just close the tab. It wasn't that important to begin with. That includes YouTube sometimes. Same with other types of annoying ads. No need for an ad blocker for me so far.

My guess is many people are just like you. Basically, they've already installed ad blockers in their minds. Open article, click x, read article. Or read article, don't look to the left and right. Or see 45 sec countdown video, quit. That's basically how I browse. The only ads I'm ever interested in turn out to be reminders of things I've looked at, due to how cookies work.

I do the same while reading other websites, but have always designed mine with the goal of never using advertising methods I would be annoyed of. No popovers, no video ads, no full screen takeovers. I also recently removed Google Adsense because the ads it showed were not relevant to my content even though they may have technically been relevant to my readers via retargeting.

Interestingly enough, at least in my field, using these practices have actually had the effect of increasing ad revenue since I am now directly selling ads and cutting out the middleman.