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HP to cut 25-30k jobs

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Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#151
post #35

Yesterday I picked up a rental car. I wanted Cheri listed as a driver. I emailed the photo I took of her driver license before I left the house to the person at the counter. All using my phone. I didn't need a scanner or a printer or ink. I take documents with me using my phone. The printer business ain't like it was.

Perhaps you missed this in the article, but these layoffs are in the Enterprise division. The printer business is separate.

HP is trying to save its printer business because in the short term that will be better for senior management's options than changing the the company's course. Wall Street will bump the price and HP management will claim success and see their bonuses rise. That's much more attractive than changing course.

If the printer business was flush, HP could afford to bet on a diversity of services and products. They would be in the business of making money rather than saving it. 25k redundant staff doesn't speak to a track record of sound management decision making of the sort that would inspire confidence in this decision being a great one. Layoffs aren't innovation.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#152

I'm really sorry for all those people. Nothing worse than losing your job. I hope they at least get a good severance. It's a pretty mis-run company that is now having a lot of human collateral damage. Really sad.

Many things worse than losing your job. Health issues, incarceration, serious problems with your kids, and betraying an old friend by luring him to Cloud City and turning him over to Boba Fett all come to mind...

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#153
post #8

My father is a field-service engineer for HP in Midwest (based out of Minneapolis, but he has calls all over from Fargo, ND to Mpls, MN to Madison, WI). He is _the_ go-to for their biggest, most senior, most mission-critical clients. He put together UMN's Alpha setup, is the only guy that USPS will call for help, MNSCU, Best Buy, UHG... basically, anyone with an HP setup (server or printer) that's a Fortune 1000 (and…

Wow. Rant incoming. Im just aghast how shitty your country is. I can understand living in fear of mortgages and the like, jak with at will nonsense and the like ( gags ) But your employer having a gun to your beloved's head - that what it basically is - is just rotten. I genuinely wish that any libertarians here (in Poland) move to USA or, Friedmans beloved, Chile. I hope they get to experience shit like that. I gues…

Those "libertarians" as you call them are the reason why you're not living in communist shithole and it's clear from your post that you're too young to truly appreciate the advantages of free market.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#154
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Posts like this remind me how shitty the business model of most Fortune 500 companies is. They lay off people just to increase profits regardless of productivity goals. For most management councils out there everything is about numbers. Perhaps we ought to do something as a community to stop such practices. Like boycott the shit out of companies that adopt them.

HP is particularly dumb in this area. My personal acquaintance with this was with their strict "up and out" policy that was in effect several years ago. A decade ago I had a secondary responsibility of supporting a legacy DEC terminal environment. The crew supporting it were HP badged guys not making alot of money, but being billed at some wacky rate. Never heard from HP hq until some VP of something flew in to tell…

You can restate that as "HP encourages employees to form their own business" :)

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#155
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At $1,000/month that's over 10% of his pre-tax income at his current job. That's a lot of money if you aren't working and your income goes to zero.

Yes, but if that happens, thanks to the other half of Obamacare (the Medicaid expansion), if income goes to zero / povertylevel for any adult (no longer merely special classes of disabled or child-raising adult), then healthcare becomes free. People with big enough health problems that the heavily subsidized Silver market category is insufficient, but who have only a middle class income, do get stung in this system;…

From what I can tell it doesn't do this until you've been unemployed long enough to file a return with zero income.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#156
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. Rant incoming. Im just aghast how shitty your country is. I can understand living in fear of mortgages and the like, jak with at will nonsense and the like ( gags ) But your employer having a gun to your beloved's head - that what it basically is - is just rotten. I genuinely wish that any libertarians here (in Poland) move to USA or, Friedmans beloved, Chile. I hope they get to experience shit like that. I gues…

You don't have to pay your mortgage if you get laid off in Poland?

In some European countries (probably not Poland) the unemployment you get for about 2 years if you lose your job is sufficient to cover a mortgage. The philosophy is that it is cheaper for the state to help people stay in their existing home than to have them lose it and potentially have to house them and them never go back to being a net contributor.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#157
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he's called-in to early retire or otherwise let go, make sure he doesn't sign a non-compete at that time. He should have anything he has signed, and is asked to sign, reviewed by an attorney. It's just not reasonable for companies to terminate someone's job and tell them they can't compete including being hired by a competitor, but they try this all the time in blatant ways and it's not just the old guard companie…

Would HP really try to get someone they are laying off to sign a noncompete contact?

I would assume they are in a very defensive mode and are thinking about liabilities and risks as they continue to hemorrhage employees and potential revenue. This makes it much more likely that they would try to protect themselves through any legal means possible. No company would plan on laying off 20k+ people without thinking about minimizing their liabilities and protecting their sources of business.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#158
post #30
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your dad needs to think about the next best 5 guys, and how to pick them up for cheap when the layoffs happen. At his age striking out on his own will seem absolutely terrifying. Work on him for a few months. He must have built up some serious contacts over the years. His pitch is straightforward. HP can't actually support their products anymore, they don't have the staff. He knows the hardware inside and out. Sell s…

This sounds like a great idea, but I don't know if he's such an entrepreneur or risk-taker. Some people are, some people aren't. It's a natural thing. I'm not sure of the papers he's signed (non-competes...), or the contracts that HP has with their customers (there must be some), but... he could definitely "get the band together" and pull off such a feat. Again, I think this goes back to the contracts he had. He's on…

>He's one of 4 remaining from the "blue days" (time with Digital); I think they'd be able to pull it off if they did go this route. They're all pretty awesome.

From personal experience, I want to add some long-term expectations about commanding premium consulting rates -- especially as it relates to vendor-proprietary knowledge.

I used to work for an enterprise software firm and was on their "crisis firefighting team". I'd travel to customer sites at less than 24 hours notice and fix their worst problems. These were the problems that were escalated to the CEO.

When I left the company and struck out on my own as a freelance "subject matter expert", I was able to command $300k a year for a few years. My background and rate was easy to sell: I was trained directly by the people who wrote the software.

The thing is that I always knew I was living on borrowed time because that high income was based on my previous association of being in the "inner circle" of how the software works. I had to diversify my skills away from that software because with each year that passed by, I became more of an "outsider" just like everyone else.

To relate to your dad's situation ... yes he's very good at what he does, but some of that value may also be his inside feed of information from HP. After he's separated from HP, as each new generation of server & printer hardware is released, his "aura" of HP knowledge can become outdated and less relevant value for customers. In other words, he needs to charge whatever premium rate he can, save as much as he can, all with an eye towards diversifying his income. Diversity could mean new tech skills such as learning AWS architecture or buying real estate to get income from rental properties.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#159
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but if you get laid off all bets are off really. Maybe it is different in the US, but in the UK I've known of cases of people who have been laid off who then went on the form competing companies. There may have been some law suits flying around behind the scenes, but in the end these companies settled and were successful.

My understanding is that being laid off is a "termination of contract" - therefore making any noncompete terms in said contract null and void. Not to mention that "restrictive covenants" such as a noncompete won't fly in this sort of situation. Then again, my experience is with UK employment law so please don't take this as legal advice.

This depends on one's jurisdiction, in the U.S. at least. For example, in Illinois, non-competes are generally enforceable.[0] In California, they are generally not.[1]

[0] http://www.isba.org/ibj/2012/01/lawpulse/employmentcovenants...

[1] http://www.cnet.com/news/calif-supreme-court-finds-noncompet...

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#160
post #33
post #4

HP's new business model for the last 2 years : * cut costs (mostly by disabling essential business functions) * buy back stock using proceeds The result: https://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&... The person in Charge : Meg Whitman. In 2008, she was cited by The New York Times as among the women most likely to become the first female President of the United States. Because what "worked" for HP, w…

Doing the math on this, they apparently believe that each one of those people is costing the company $108k per year, net. Given that HP's revenue per employee is ~$350k, I find those numbers simply unbelievable. And let's suppose for a second that HP is somehow right. How did they just notice that 10% of their employees are doing something totally worthless? On top of the 55,000 employees that they laid off in 2012?…

There's many reasons for layoffs besides the belief that employees are negative / insufficient value. For example, companies do lay-offs in smaller quantities simply because a high level business objective wasn't met and a division is going to be disbanded as a strategic decision. In HP's case, I'm pretty sure that HP management feels that these targeted employees work for divisions that management can't foresee sufficient profit to keep operating which has increasingly become based around service and support for the old Compaq lines of business. HP has tried desperately to break into higher margin enterprise software and services for at least two decades now with mixed results and after failing to increase their brand value on the hardware side to approach something like Apple (I looked at HP's on the book assets compared to their market cap a few years ago and they were worth less than if they liquidated according to their market cap). Buying VoodooPC a while ago is an example of trying to increase brand value by associating themselves with "high end" stuff with corresponding mark-ups.

Organizational morale at HP has been pretty dire for at least a decade by now with few bright spots of news and a revolving door of leadership. I left HP in very early 2010 after a few years there when I was acquired in, but in hindsight I should have left probably the second I heard of the acquisition and cashed out what I could of my NQSOs / ISOs. I've been calling them the Walmart of tech years ago before these recent stories about Amazon showed up because unlike Amazon, the stories of poor pay, long hours, and consistently below-market compensation are very, very common at HP.

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