Not to change the subject but why does this sound like Gibson Guitar all over again? National law vs External laws = sovereignty?
A Case That Has Microsoft, Apple and Amazon Agreeing
151–160 of 190 posts
Re: A Case That Has Microsoft, Apple and Amazon Agreeing
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But just because I agree to let Google read my location to send me traffic warnings before heading out to work doesn't mean I want the FBI to grab that data without my knowledge so they can determine if I might be a troublemaker Constitutionally, privacy is a pretty cut-and-dry concept. Information is either private or not. Private information isn't "information I don't want the government to have" it's "informatio…
> Constitutionally, privacy is a pretty cut-and-dry concept You clearly don't understand the US Constitution or existing US law. Saying it's cut-and-dry doesn't make it so. > Information is either private or not I'm sorry, I made a mistake. You don't understand privacy as a concept at all. Privacy is about access controls. What's more all this frothing about privacy is not the issue under consideration. The issue is…
Please be civil.
BTW, the person you're replying to is a lawyer. Are you?
Re: A Case That Has Microsoft, Apple and Amazon Agreeing
#153"There’s irony in any tech company confronting the government on privacy matters, considering how much heat many take for mining their own customer information and using it for advertising and other profitable purposes." See, I don't find this very ironic. In fact, my only real issue with data mining and analysis by these sorts of companies is the way governments can demand this info without my approval. If Microsoft…
I don't see the irony either. I believe the critical difference is that corporations aren't (or at worst case shouldn't) in the business of using data in a way that they can legitimize the use force against their customers. Unlike government.
Re: A Case That Has Microsoft, Apple and Amazon Agreeing
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But just because I agree to let Google read my location to send me traffic warnings before heading out to work doesn't mean I want the FBI to grab that data without my knowledge so they can determine if I might be a troublemaker Constitutionally, privacy is a pretty cut-and-dry concept. Information is either private or not. Private information isn't "information I don't want the government to have" it's "informatio…
I admit my post was more a personal complaint/rant than a legal argument. I guess my concern isn't so much about privacy as it is about the ability (or inability) to decide on at least a general level where to send information. Put way-too-simplisticly, if someone said to me: "Would you let my widget track where you drive in exchange for a discount on fuel based on mileage?" Maybe I would say yes. Maybe I would say n…
> I admit my post was more a personal complaint/rant than a legal argument. I guess my concern isn't so much about privacy as it is about the ability (or inability) to decide on at least a general level where to send information.
Just to clarify, I'm not trying to make it into a legal argument. I think your point is well-taken and widely shared. I'm trying to explain what forces are in play and why it's so hard to make progress on what is a pretty prevalent vision of privacy in the tech community. It's not just a tweek, we're talking about retooling some pretty fundamental assumptions about the powers of government.
Re: A Case That Has Microsoft, Apple and Amazon Agreeing
#155If companies stored customer data encrypted by keys that are held by the customer, they wouldn't have this problem. Furthermore, they wouldn't have to worry about deleting customer data either. The customer would have the power to simply deny access to the keys.
>> If companies stored customer data encrypted by keys that are held by the customer, they wouldn't have this problem. There is no value to the company in doing that. They can't mine the communications to determine what ads to serve you, or anything else. At that point they'd just be offering a free service. Why?
Sure they can. They want to run a job, they can get the key from me and run it. This can be transparent to me; eg my phone could transmit them the key every day until I decide to stop.
So many people are saying "your proposal breaks cloud services or requires client side compute", but that's not true. Be more imaginative and get outside the current model.
Re: A Case That Has Microsoft, Apple and Amazon Agreeing
#156If companies stored customer data encrypted by keys that are held by the customer, they wouldn't have this problem. Furthermore, they wouldn't have to worry about deleting customer data either. The customer would have the power to simply deny access to the keys.
If the data is opaque to the provider, then there are many services they won't be able to provide on it (without some major advances in homomorphic encryption). For example, spam detection or search. Sharing is also made much more difficult.
When I submit a search, I can also submit the key.
Spam filtering can be done as the email streams in. Email databases which power the spam filter can be de-anonymize do and reduced to statistics.
I guess sharing is harder but it can still be done. If I share content with you, I'm giving you permission to have a copy so it can be encrypted with your key as well as mine.
Re: A Case That Has Microsoft, Apple and Amazon Agreeing
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tarsnap (a service that acts like your description) is quite nice, but the problem of "customer lost the keys" is a very real one. I love the idea, but someone really needs to come up with some decent key management (and offline backup and key migration) to make this consumer friendly.
Then, we need a good service to store keys, with a key to get to your key
Can't this just be my phone?
Re: A Case That Has Microsoft, Apple and Amazon Agreeing
#158"There’s irony in any tech company confronting the government on privacy matters, considering how much heat many take for mining their own customer information and using it for advertising and other profitable purposes." See, I don't find this very ironic. In fact, my only real issue with data mining and analysis by these sorts of companies is the way governments can demand this info without my approval. If Microsoft…
> But just because I agree to let Google read my location to send me traffic warnings before heading out to work doesn't mean I want the FBI to grab that data without my knowledge so they can determine if I might be a troublemaker Constitutionally, privacy is a pretty cut-and-dry concept. Information is either private or not. Private information isn't "information I don't want the government to have" it's "informatio…
> Constitutionally, privacy is a pretty cut-and-dry concept.
That's true. Privacy is anything you kept on your own person or in your own property.
Emails however, are stored on another person's computer and therefore have no expectation of privacy. (some 1980s case IIRC).
Constitutionally, privacy is a cut-and-dry concept for the 1800s when the Bill of Rights were written. The fact of the matter is, the people who wrote the Constitution had no concept of "Cloud Computing" or "Computing" in general.
So it is up to the job of today's Politicians and Judges to figure out what to do in these cases. And that isn't a very easy job to do.
Re: A Case That Has Microsoft, Apple and Amazon Agreeing
#159"There’s irony in any tech company confronting the government on privacy matters, considering how much heat many take for mining their own customer information and using it for advertising and other profitable purposes." See, I don't find this very ironic. In fact, my only real issue with data mining and analysis by these sorts of companies is the way governments can demand this info without my approval. If Microsoft…
Yeah that opt out theory was nice some years ago. Now it's not that simple anymore. Most of the times you just have no choice. What right has Amazon to do this? They get their share from the fact that I buy stuff though them. So I pay and still get analyzed. There are many more services that work like that. You can get around some of them by spending much money or acquiring special skills that would allow you to run…
Not useful enough to be able to acquire a bank account, which requires a drivers license or social security number, which then requires a birth certificate.
And as it turns out, it seem acquiring any of these things for purposes of a false identity is illegal. So much for remaining anonymous online just because I'd like to be, not because I need to be.
Re: A Case That Has Microsoft, Apple and Amazon Agreeing
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
IndexedDB[1] sort of makes that a non-issue, doesn't it? [1]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/IndexedDB_A...
No, it doesn't. This issue is not technology to store and search data from the client. The point is not wanting to download everything to every client in the first place.
Personally, I am a fan of p2p applications and doing things locally. Unfortunately, there are a lot of unsolved issues, especially when it comes to data storage, like you mentioned.