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M, a personal digital assistant inside Facebook Messenger

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Re: M, a personal digital assistant inside Facebook Messenger

#151

Post by bobbles »

dbot wrote: post #140
shostack wrote: post #82

My issue with these services is they always tout these use cases like: > "Can you make me dinner reservations?" or > "Can you help me plan my next vacation?" I'd really love to better understand who is actually asking those types of questions in such a vague fashion, and what their use case is. When I'm picking something as simple as a restaurant, I typically want options, I want to read reviews, I want to consider d…

Agree completely. I saw a similar issue with sites like Operator, Magic, etc. The requests were very vague, making me wonder, "Am I spending too much time thinking about where to order a pizza from?" And if I know which pizza shop I want to order from, what's the benefit of adding an intermediary?

I guess there could be "Hey M, order my usual from the pizza place" or something like that.

But until it elevates from 'digital assistant' level to just 'assistant' (ie. do all the work and just confirm with me before booking) it may not take off as they expect it to

Re: M, a personal digital assistant inside Facebook Messenger

#152

Post by goldfeld »

nemothekid wrote: post #106
tomg wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The PA does not work for you, it works for FB. It has only FB's interest's in mind. You are not it's employer as you do not pay for it. It's not in FB's interest to make honest recommendations. If Bob's Burgers is paying $1000/mo in FB ads, but Karen's Burgers keeps being recommended as the "good burger joint", how long before Bob stops buying ads? And why would Karen start buying FB ads since she's getting exposure…

> If Bob's Burgers is paying $1000/mo in FB ads, but Karen's Burgers keeps being recommended as the "good burger joint", how long before Bob stops buying ads? And why would Karen start buying FB ads since she's getting exposure for free? How is this any different than the approach laid out by Google Search? AFAIK, Google isn't suffering in the "search ads" department.

The amount of real state that Google ads seem to take these days is offensive, it's all ads above the fold and then some, on not-too-high resolutions. Google Search is due for replacement.

Re: M, a personal digital assistant inside Facebook Messenger

#153

Post by jrub »

shostack wrote: post #82

My issue with these services is they always tout these use cases like: > "Can you make me dinner reservations?" or > "Can you help me plan my next vacation?" I'd really love to better understand who is actually asking those types of questions in such a vague fashion, and what their use case is. When I'm picking something as simple as a restaurant, I typically want options, I want to read reviews, I want to consider d…

I think these exmples are largely worthless also. Every time I see something like this - I all but dismiss it. It seems like the aim/value proposition is to make life easier by removing decisions from our plate, but I feel like it is exchanging decisions for frustration when it doesn't work as promised, or worry about whether the decisions the system makes will be good ones.

I actually don't want a machine to make decisions for me. I want a machine to do what I tell it to do, or present me with I formation required to make a decision.

Examples: if I need a dentist appointment or to schedule maintenance for my air conditioning, I'd like to tell a machine to set it up. Heck, I'll even tell it who to call and which days and times work for me.

If I'm looking for a restaurant, show me the options, give me their distance, top reviews, and some of their dishes. If I want reservations, I'll tell it when and for how many.

Ideally, I want a "Jarvis" from "Iron Man". I ask questions, it gives data in a digestible quantity, and then I can make a decision and tell it what to do. Obviously, such a system is not available (yet), and these inferior systems are needed in order to make progress, and get there...eventually..but sometimes I wonder if the focus is on the right outcome, or just the broad strokes cookie cutter solution that comes to mind first (restaurant reservations). Similar to how all JavaScript MVC frameworks demo a to-do app, and rails tutorials demo'd a blog (initially)...

I mean, seriously... How often do you not go out to eat because you are too lazy or busy to make a reservation? Now, how many times do you skip oil changes, or making calls to cancel your cable service, because you don't want to make time in your day to stop what you're doing, pick up the phone, and call?

Re: M, a personal digital assistant inside Facebook Messenger

#154

Post by rohunati »

shostack wrote: post #82

My issue with these services is they always tout these use cases like: > "Can you make me dinner reservations?" or > "Can you help me plan my next vacation?" I'd really love to better understand who is actually asking those types of questions in such a vague fashion, and what their use case is. When I'm picking something as simple as a restaurant, I typically want options, I want to read reviews, I want to consider d…

no, i think you're spot on. it's always interplay between reading reviews, while factoring in cuisine, distance and price.

Re: M, a personal digital assistant inside Facebook Messenger

#155

Post by shostack »

jrub wrote: post #153
shostack wrote: post #82

My issue with these services is they always tout these use cases like: > "Can you make me dinner reservations?" or > "Can you help me plan my next vacation?" I'd really love to better understand who is actually asking those types of questions in such a vague fashion, and what their use case is. When I'm picking something as simple as a restaurant, I typically want options, I want to read reviews, I want to consider d…

I think these exmples are largely worthless also. Every time I see something like this - I all but dismiss it. It seems like the aim/value proposition is to make life easier by removing decisions from our plate, but I feel like it is exchanging decisions for frustration when it doesn't work as promised, or worry about whether the decisions the system makes will be good ones. I actually don't want a machine to make de…

100% agree. I'd refine it slightly by saying it isn't just a recommendation we want, it is presenting us with the logic under the hood in terms of HOW it made the decision--not what the decision was.

If it told me it recommended the restaurants along with commentary like "you really liked X at another place, and this place has been voted to have comparable X, plus it is close by and you've had a long day and need to get up early tomorrow" that would be super useful and help me reach my own conclusion faster.

Re: M, a personal digital assistant inside Facebook Messenger

#156

Post by pbreit »

shostack wrote: post #143
pbreit wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at Amazon Echo, the stuff that works is pretty specific: Set timer for 5 minutes Add eggs to shopping list Play Clocks by Coldplay Weather

Don't have an Echo and have never ordered groceries so not sure how they solve this one, but taking the example of "Add eggs to shopping list"...how do they handle brand options with general queries like that? Are there brand options?

Sorry for any confusion. There's not a purchase. It's just a plain old shopping list.

Re: M, a personal digital assistant inside Facebook Messenger

#157

Post by jacalata »

gorena wrote: post #91
rhino369 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grocery stores have been tracking your food purchases since the 1990s at least. That's why they have those shopping cards.

Apple Pay and/or cash defeats this, though.

"Those shopping cards" probably means coupon cards. It doesn't matter how you pay if you also put in your personal QFC number at every transaction.

Re: M, a personal digital assistant inside Facebook Messenger

#158

Post by Shish2k »

pbreit wrote: post #119
viksit wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. Those are too broad. I'm thinking " get me a dinner reservation next sunday with patio seating for 5 in the east village at an upscale tapas place ". As I mentioned elsewhere on this page, my thesis around conversational interfaces isn't that they start off broad and use more Q/A to refine your query. That's slow, and people are visual. Rather, their power lies in the user being able to express a complex query…

"get me a dinner reservation next sunday with patio seating for 5 in the east village at an upscale tapas place" Nope. I don't think anyone would ever leave it up to M (or whatever) to select the restaurant.

I would; though for me going out to eat with friends is more about the "going out with friends" - where we end up is a fairly minor detail

Re: M, a personal digital assistant inside Facebook Messenger

#159

Post by vidarh »

shostack wrote: post #143
pbreit wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at Amazon Echo, the stuff that works is pretty specific: Set timer for 5 minutes Add eggs to shopping list Play Clocks by Coldplay Weather

Don't have an Echo and have never ordered groceries so not sure how they solve this one, but taking the example of "Add eggs to shopping list"...how do they handle brand options with general queries like that? Are there brand options?

I get groceries delivered weekly from Ocado in the UK, and they put together the weekly shopping list for us. Automatically.

They do so entirely based on past shopping history.

Currently the only annoyance is logging in once a week to check if there's any adjustments we'd like to make. But it's good enough that if I don't feel like it, I'll just take my chances (you can also add "always include X" and "never automatically add Y" rules, which is part of the reason why that works...) and most of the time I get what we need.

I never want to go back to putting together my own shopping list from scratch.

This is how I want these type of services to work. I don't want to have to talk to them. 99% of the time, I'd prefer them to be invisible to me, and make things that used to be an annoyance just disappear.

But the one way it could be better would be to make that one last interaction disappear more often: Not having to log in to make changes. Being able to just say out in the air that I want to add eggs, would be great, and in that case I'd want it added based on past preferences: If I've bought eggs before, and I'm not specifying, just add the quantity and brand I usually order. If an alternative I've also ordered is cheaper or on offer, ask for confirmation if I'd be happy with that instead. If I haven't bought eggs before, pick a brand based on my past overall purchase history, and ask for confirmation, or simply add some - if I'm asking to "add eggs" rather than "please recommend me some eggs for my grocery shopping", I probably don't care.

Re: M, a personal digital assistant inside Facebook Messenger

#160

Post by vidarh »

gervase wrote: post #95
shostack wrote: post #82

My issue with these services is they always tout these use cases like: > "Can you make me dinner reservations?" or > "Can you help me plan my next vacation?" I'd really love to better understand who is actually asking those types of questions in such a vague fashion, and what their use case is. When I'm picking something as simple as a restaurant, I typically want options, I want to read reviews, I want to consider d…

I completely agree. To make this useful, perhaps you could set up some kind of saved preferences. For example, let's say I'm setting up a business trip. I like hotels that are within 1 mile of the conference center, and they have to be at least 3.5 stars and up. Provided they meet those criteria, the cheapest option is acceptable. I also need a plane flight that has no more than 1 layover, and that layover cannot las…

A lot of it is simply about learning when you know enough and when you need more information through the interactions themselves. If you have to "set things up" it seems tedious. If it's just conversing with you about the information it needs, and gradually learning your preferences, that's different.

I used to fly in to the Bay Area very often on business. At first the office manager arranging things would ask me details about which airline and which flights I'd prefer after listing the options, and which hotels, describing address and location and how near they were the office. Possibly e-mailing me a bunch of links for me to look at. But after just a few trips it was down to "is flying out on the 2.30 on Wednesday and returning on the 3.15 the following Thursday, ok? [she know when I preferred to fly, and she'd implicitly have ensured they were the right code to maximize my chance of an upgrade] Your usual hotel is full, is the Sheraton ok?" [no addresses necessary - we'd boiled it down to 2-3 preferred hotels within walking distance of the office].

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