Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Bernie Sanders' 404 page

berniesanders.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 278 posts

Re: Bernie Sanders' 404 page

#151

Post by alwaysAttending »

TimJRobinson wrote: post #134
philangist wrote: post #6

I don't follow politics at all, but the more I read and hear about Bernie Sanders the more I like him. I'm sure we've got a few political experts on Hacker News so I'd love to hear if you guys think he actually has any chance of winning the presidency.

As someone who was born in Australia and now lives in Amsterdam I feel like he's the most sane politician in America. I still don't understand why Americans are so insistent on keeping their "Bad for the people, good for business" policies. If you're in the 1% sure that makes sense, but for everyone else life is so much nicer with free healthcare, good vacation time, maternity leave, good public transport, proper pri…

Part of it has to do with xenophobia and racism. Social Safety Net policy was more popular back when blacks were excluded. Throw in minorities, and people start singing a different tune. It's not like Europe is immune from this either. This is basically the platform of UKIP and the National Front. USA is much more diverse and has to deal with these issues up front. Except in Vermont, where the populace is 95% white. They're much more supportive of socialism. Coincidence?

Re: Bernie Sanders' 404 page

#152

Post by eli_gottlieb »

pweissbrod wrote: post #65
javert wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not even most of the Democratic base will vote for a white male socialist in his 70's over Hillary Why do you say that? I could perhaps be convinced, but at this point I don't see any reason to think that.

Thinking back to the 2012 election, the sentiment of reducing government/cutting taxes in this country is palpably strong. The word "socialist" itself gradually became established as an anti-american insult. Republicans worked hard to place this label on obama as an affront to american freedom reminiscent of communism. Bernie Sanders is a self-described socialist. His ideals dont align with the prevailing american va…

>Bernie Sanders is a self-described socialist. His ideals dont align with the prevailing american values.

Just because you told all the socialists in the USA that we're unpatriotic traitors and should shut the hell up, doesn't mean we stopped actually existing. And now we've got a candidate who stands for our views.

Re: Bernie Sanders' 404 page

#153

Post by grecy »

oluwie wrote: post #120
hyperbovine wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He favors European style social democracy. His whole point is that there actually exist functioning countries where health care is universal and free, college is accessible to all, gay people have rights, etc etc., and that America could be one of those countries if we wanted to. Btw I learned this by spending five minutes last night reading about him and watching a short interview, so I think your comment gives him…

The problem with the U.S. and why universal health care potentially wouldn't work is in terms of scale. The U.S. has over 300M people living in it, over 8x as much as the most populous European country. We also have a history of hating and evading taxes at all costs (Boston Tea Party). I'm not saying it can't work but the economics gets truly tricky when you're dealing with a country that big.

You are in the richest country in the world, and you're telling me that universal healthcare can't work because of scale?

I'm shocked the average person on the street believes these lies.

Universal Heathcare doesn't work in the US right now because some very powerful and rich people will be a lot less powerful and rich, and they don't want that. Open your eyes for a second and realize you are the only developed country without it, and everyone else considers it a basic human right.

Re: Bernie Sanders' 404 page

#154

Post by xeromal »

slg wrote: post #138
TimJRobinson wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who was born in Australia and now lives in Amsterdam I feel like he's the most sane politician in America. I still don't understand why Americans are so insistent on keeping their "Bad for the people, good for business" policies. If you're in the 1% sure that makes sense, but for everyone else life is so much nicer with free healthcare, good vacation time, maternity leave, good public transport, proper pri…

It all comes down to our "freedom" fetish. Why should the government force me to take 4 weeks of vacation when I can make due with 2? Why would I want to build my day around a train schedule when I could just get in my car and drive? And so on.

You are kind of simplifying it to make it seem more stupid than it already is.

My dad would be annoyed that he has to pay for all this "extra" stuff in order to grow his business. Simple as that. He believes that the big companies already provide some semblance of benefits so really the only people hurt are the people with small businesses. You can go get another job if you don't like it.

Re: Bernie Sanders' 404 page

#155

Post by microcolonel »

slg wrote: post #138
TimJRobinson wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who was born in Australia and now lives in Amsterdam I feel like he's the most sane politician in America. I still don't understand why Americans are so insistent on keeping their "Bad for the people, good for business" policies. If you're in the 1% sure that makes sense, but for everyone else life is so much nicer with free healthcare, good vacation time, maternity leave, good public transport, proper pri…

It all comes down to our "freedom" fetish. Why should the government force me to take 4 weeks of vacation when I can make due with 2? Why would I want to build my day around a train schedule when I could just get in my car and drive? And so on.

If this would prevent my employer from rewarding me for only taking two weeks of vacation, I would argue that it'd be unconstitutional.

Re: Bernie Sanders' 404 page

#156

Post by learc83 »

alwaysAttending wrote: post #145
MrJagil wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm wondering how this compares to countries who actually has his "utopia" implemented, to a certain degree at least. I mean, in Denmark, the government pays you $1000 a month to study college/university. In the implementation stage they must've had similar problems to the ones you're describing. Is it a hockey-stick graph and are these obstacles just necessary for future prosperity?

The European model is somewhat different than the American one even at public universities. It would require some compromise even from the left. I'm not sure exactly but I think there are more Lecturers and fewer Profs in Europe, for instance. In Denmark, the avg Prof only makes $70,000. Adjuncts make around $50,000. I imagine professors (actual tenured Professors) are paid much better in the US.

Here's what I can find. Doesn't really look much better. Full professors are making 94k, but associate and assistant professors are making around or below 70k. Keep in mind that there are usually only a small handful of full professors per department.

https://www.higheredjobs.com/salary/salaryDisplay.cfm?Survey...

Re: Bernie Sanders' 404 page

#157

Post by bmelton »

thisisdallas wrote: post #132
alwaysAttending wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny because that's a general sentiment among Sanders supporters. They like the way he sounds but don't really follow politics. The reality is his policy isn't all that good. It's just very utopian sounding so people love it. Take his Free College For all Bill. It sounds nice doesn't it? Free College for all! I can support that! But in reality it's quite flawed. Beyond the fact that it's just a new 50 billion d…

> The reality is his policy isn't all that good. It's just very utopian sounding so people love it. Take his Free College For all Bill. It sounds nice doesn't it? Free College for all! This is what you get when people think with their emotions instead of logic. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Well, on logic, his plan simply won't work. This isn't my logical analysis, though I agree, but the considered opinion of many economists.

The plan, as put forth, is proposed to levy a .025%–.5% tax on stocks, .025%–.1% tax on bonds and .005%–.02% on derivatives with the funds going to health, public services, debt reduction, infrastructure and job creation.

Ignoring the claim that it's a "Robin Hood" tax, and that Robin Hood is being misunderstood here, the idea that it will capture wealth from the rich, or Wall Street, is not really supported in reality. What will likely happen is the same thing that happened when Sweden implemented their own financial transaction tax; the hard-core traders will simply start putting most of their transactions to foreign exchanges, and the bulk of those remaining will be the ones that can't easily switch, which are our pension funds, our 401Ks, etc.

The consensus amongst economic circles is that it will fail to attain even a significant fraction of the revenues it expects to, and that those taxes it does raise revenue from will impact the poor and middle class much more so than the rich it is targeting.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/06/20/the-stupi...

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45583134

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/kamal-ahmed/88722...

Re: Bernie Sanders' 404 page

#158

Post by malkia »

TimJRobinson wrote: post #134
philangist wrote: post #6

I don't follow politics at all, but the more I read and hear about Bernie Sanders the more I like him. I'm sure we've got a few political experts on Hacker News so I'd love to hear if you guys think he actually has any chance of winning the presidency.

As someone who was born in Australia and now lives in Amsterdam I feel like he's the most sane politician in America. I still don't understand why Americans are so insistent on keeping their "Bad for the people, good for business" policies. If you're in the 1% sure that makes sense, but for everyone else life is so much nicer with free healthcare, good vacation time, maternity leave, good public transport, proper pri…

A lot of my bulgarian friends, and others, living here in America are thinking that taxes, free schools, even police, firefighting, etc. are just things that should go away.

Essentially you have to pay, and be a "share-holder" in everything. You should be on top of things everywhere, etc. etc.

And someone recently posted this on his fb page: "If a businessman makes a mistake, he suffers the consequences. If a bureaucrat makes a mistake, you suffer the consequences." - Ayn Rand.

In essence the above is correct, but it does not tell the whole picture. While the businessman most likely would suffer, nothing is being said about lots of innocent people that would suffer too (and being on Hacker News, the recent story of security breaches leaking lots of personal information).

Also it's not always the case that people would suffer the consequences due to a bureaucrat (assuming public office of sorts), and even if they do, it'll be less painful (distributed over all the population of the country, state or city), rather than people directly being affected by certain business.

To my friends, it's really painful that they have to pay taxes - some of them don't have kids, and they don't think they should pay for school. I fuckin don't get this, since not having good education is the road to ruin...

Re: Bernie Sanders' 404 page

#159

Post by javert »

res0nat0r wrote: post #109
gerty wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> His ideals dont align with the prevailing american values. That's not exactly true. I recall an article in the Washington Post explaining that his propositions are actually supported by majority of Americans. Sanders is not a real socialist, he's just a New Deal Democrat.

Most of America is for the ACA, but against Obamacare, it all depends on how you phrase the question. The issue is that most of America isn't represented when it comes time to vote, only a small subset of people do, and those who do are not going to be voting for Sanders when it comes time to choose which Democrat to get behind.

> Most of America is for the ACA, but against Obamacare, it all depends on how you phrase the question.

Citation needed. I can't believe that without some kind of evidence. I can believe that the wording of the question matters, but not that it's "ACA" vs. "Obamacare."

Re: Bernie Sanders' 404 page

#160

Post by bmelton »

grecy wrote: post #153
oluwie wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with the U.S. and why universal health care potentially wouldn't work is in terms of scale. The U.S. has over 300M people living in it, over 8x as much as the most populous European country. We also have a history of hating and evading taxes at all costs (Boston Tea Party). I'm not saying it can't work but the economics gets truly tricky when you're dealing with a country that big.

You are in the richest country in the world, and you're telling me that universal healthcare can't work because of scale? I'm shocked the average person on the street believes these lies. Universal Heathcare doesn't work in the US right now because some very powerful and rich people will be a lot less powerful and rich, and they don't want that. Open your eyes for a second and realize you are the only developed count…

Per capita, we aren't the richest country in the world.

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/06/24/what-is-the...

Post reply on HN