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NASA announces discovery of Earth-like planet with earth similarity index 0.98

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Re: NASA announces discovery of Earth-like planet with earth similarity index 0.98

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To have an ESI, an object needs to have a mean radius, a density, an escape velocity, and a surface temperature. Gas giants and stars, therefore, don't really have a definable ESI, since they lack a 'surface' where you can take a temperature. If something has all of those properties, then because of the way it's defined, it has an ESI which is strictly > 0 and Incidentally, the formulation of the ESI is a good generi…

Then why didn't they just define it so that objects with an "undefinable surface" have an ESI of 0?

Sure, you could do that. I guess there's just not really much need for ESI to be defined across the domain of "all things". A similarity index of zero just means "not at all similar to Earth", which, yes, applies to the Sun and Jupiter, but also to a blob of tomato ketchup, or moonlight, or schadenfreude. Most things have an ESI of zero, then.

Re: NASA announces discovery of Earth-like planet with earth similarity index 0.98

#142
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, what has a value of zero?

To have an ESI, an object needs to have a mean radius, a density, an escape velocity, and a surface temperature. Gas giants and stars, therefore, don't really have a definable ESI, since they lack a 'surface' where you can take a temperature. If something has all of those properties, then because of the way it's defined, it has an ESI which is strictly > 0 and Incidentally, the formulation of the ESI is a good generi…

The ESI defines a hyperspherical gradient across several different axes of earth similarity. And since each of those axes are defined by a ratio to an Earth value, zeroes would only be found for objects with the following properties:

  - Infinite mean radius.
  - Zero mean radius.
  - Infinite density.
  - Zero density.
  - Infinite escape velocity.
  - Zero escape velocity.
  - Infinite surface temperature.
  - Zero surface temperature.
As such, the only object I can think of that might qualify would be a theoretical zero-entropy singularity that might have existed existed prior to the Big Bang. Zero radius, infinite density, infinite escape velocity, zero surface temperature.

Given the nature of the calculation, it probably would have been better to define perfectly Earth-like as zero, and assign positive indices to bodies, with higher numbers indicating greater dissimilarity to Earth. It would be a distance calculation along multiple axes of similarity, but adjusted by scale factors to coerce the differences between comparison axes with different units to have an order of magnitude proportional to perceived importance to humans.

If you have a difference function for each axis that yields a number from 0-1 for comfortable, 1-10 for tolerable, 10-100 for survivable, and 100+ for lethal, then you can take the square root of the sums of the difference functions for the overall index.

Anything less than 1 would be a near clone of Earth. Anything less than 10 would definitely be habitable. Anything less than 100 might be explorable. Anything greater than that, and you might just seed it with Earth extremophiles and ignore it for a few million years.

Re: NASA announces discovery of Earth-like planet with earth similarity index 0.98

#143

It HAD an ESI of 0.98 1075 years ago. By now, the inhabitants have burned through all their fossil fuels and then annihilated each other with nuclear weapons leaving the planet in both a long-term nuclear winter and with a runaway greenhouse effect. Its ESI must be at least 1.0 by now.

Your comment reminded me of

  intelligence is a kind of lethal mutation
comment made by Ernst Mayr.

Here [0] is Noam Chomsky's talk referencing that in it's entirety. Quite fascinating. I'll link to the video when I find some time.

Edit: Video snippet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzBqPiSpgVA

[0]: http://www.chomsky.info/talks/20100930.htm

Re: NASA announces discovery of Earth-like planet with earth similarity index 0.98

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure these all apply for Mars and Venus and they're dead planets. Not sure why everyone is assuming some exo-planet must have life when the two other examples we have don't.

The earth similarity index for venus is 0.44, and for mars is 0.70

I understand, but that's a synthetic benchmark. We actually have no idea why Earth has life and other planets don't and similarity to Earth may not be a big factor (see theories on life in Europa's seas for example or non-carbon based life).

I just feel everyone gets excited over nothing solely because its extra-solar. Our own solar system is fairly diverse. If life was common, we'd probably be seeing more of it here.

Re: NASA announces discovery of Earth-like planet with earth similarity index 0.98

#145

I'm disappointed by the negativity expressed in some of the top comments in this thread. This is an exciting discovery, and the most popular comments here are basically "humanity is destroying its own planet, if this place was anything like earth, the inhabitants there would have already destroyed their planet."

I didn't see the top comment as negative, more tongue in cheek... I definitely saw your comment as negative however...

Re: NASA announces discovery of Earth-like planet with earth similarity index 0.98

#146
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few zones some think need to overlap and be dialed-in to come close to offering a habitable place: water habitable zone ultraviolet habitable zone photosynthetic habitable zone ozone habitable zone planetary rotation rate habitable zone planetary obliquity habitable zone tidal habitable zone astrosphere habitable zone

quite a few of those are not relevant for habitability. for example tides, really? or you wouldn't survive if day would have 40 hours???

They are relevant, you're just misinterpreting. None of these are meant to imply "X must be like Earth for the planet to be habitable," they mean "X is an important factor for habitability and must be considered in our models if we want them to be meaningful, unlike the ESI which captures a mere handful of variables".

For example, "tidal habitable zone" doesn't mean "we need [ocean] tides to survive," it means "tidal heating effects have an enormous impact on planetary conditions". For example, an Earth analogue in orbit around a tiny red dwarf in a seemingly "habitable zone" would be subject to tidal heating effects which would bake the surface, whereas a similar planet in a similar orbit around a sun-like yellow dwarf would not.

Similarly, "rotation rate habitable zone" doesn't mean "the planet must have a ~24 hour day", it means "all else being equal, a planet's rotation rate can greatly affect habitability," mostly due to weather patterns and air/heat circulation. By including rotation rate in our models, some planets previously thought to be inhabitable may turn out not to be, and vice versa.

Re: NASA announces discovery of Earth-like planet with earth similarity index 0.98

#147

I'm disappointed by the negativity expressed in some of the top comments in this thread. This is an exciting discovery, and the most popular comments here are basically "humanity is destroying its own planet, if this place was anything like earth, the inhabitants there would have already destroyed their planet."

[deleted]

Re: NASA announces discovery of Earth-like planet with earth similarity index 0.98

#150

Is there any way at all for us to be able to see oceans/clouds/continents on such planets if we have a hundred billion dollars and built equipment specifically just to look at that one planet? Or would the star near it just haze everything too much? Is it impossible to observe a planet in more detail like that without travelling next to it?

Yeah I think so. You'd need a telescope bigger than our earth.
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