141–150 of 573 posts
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They said it will happen by the end of 2015.
Which is still not "pulling it off", which is my point.
Regardless being able to implement backend and apps in one language is huge.
So ... what will they call the Swift MVC framework? Swift on Stilts ?
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Swift as a language is pretty great, however, the tooling and obj-c interop make it a pain in the ass. It's hard to realize most of the performance benefits when everything you're interacting with requires objc_msgsend or uses NSArray / NSDictionary. As well, it's far less 'scripty' than Obj-c. The type system in swift really leaves something to be desired in terms of typing types. The point of Obj-C was kind of to a…
> The point of Obj-C was kind of to avoid writing the kinds of apps where a great type system would really shine, swift lets you build those kind of apps, but in my opinion most of the time we shouldn't be building them. Can you clarify this? What is the kind of apps where a "type system would really shine"? How can you avoid writing them?
I don't think that's really what Obj-C was designed for.
Nice to see that Chris (Lattner) got his way. I chatted with him last WWDC right after the main Swift technical session, and he expressed the desire to open source it, but had no idea if he could get it through the powers that be. Supporting the standard libraries on Linux is certainly a surprise, though.
Supporting Linux is a surprise, but I think it's a great move on their part. Think: How many iOS apps are frontends to a server API? And how many of those APIs are running on Linux servers? Swift on Linux means ~all the code for a client-server iOS app can be written in the same language.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9500855
Being able to deploy on Linux might be what it takes!
I've never had a good experience with an Apple product.
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The same was said about FaceTime... http://www.fiercedeveloper.com/story/facetime-open-standard-... Sadly, this never came to fruition, supposedly due to legal complications. Since they own Swift, and the underlying compiler infrastructure this may be simpler to pull off.
FaceTime was my first thought, too. An awesome promise that failed to deliver. It'll be really interesting to see if a video chat format ever becomes a standard, or if we're all forced to keep accounts with multiple vendors for interoperability (skype, hangouts, facetime, etc).
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Swift as a language is pretty great, however, the tooling and obj-c interop make it a pain in the ass. It's hard to realize most of the performance benefits when everything you're interacting with requires objc_msgsend or uses NSArray / NSDictionary. As well, it's far less 'scripty' than Obj-c. The type system in swift really leaves something to be desired in terms of typing types. The point of Obj-C was kind of to a…
> The point of Obj-C was kind of to avoid writing the kinds of apps where a great type system would really shine, swift lets you build those kind of apps, but in my opinion most of the time we shouldn't be building them. Can you clarify this? What is the kind of apps where a "type system would really shine"? How can you avoid writing them?
eg. For some reason your app has the ability to use Postgres instead of SQLite, even though you always use SQLite.
eg. For some reason your app supports Postgres/MYSQL/SQL Server because every enterprise you sell to wants to run their preferred database instead of the one that works best with your product.
In short 'enterprise' apps.
People who talk about swift compare it to Rust and Go. I can see how the syntax is to ObjC what Go is to C++. Else but that, in what way is Swift anything like Go or Rust? To me (someone who does Lisp & JS, so none of these all) go seems cool for concurrency and being 'boring' (in a great way). Rust seems cool for being very robust and 'safe' (or hard to screw up with), while still doing concurrency nicely and lettin…
ObjC is really just plain C, plus some Smalltalk-like semantics within the square brackets. This means you end up with all the "footguns" of C, plus dynamic OO behavior. Swift is like Rust in that it's intended to be fast, "safer", and compiles to LLVM bytecode. Also, Swift and Rust both use Option types for error reporting rather than exceptions or error codes. In the same sense that Rust is a way to leave behind ol…
[0] http://www.apple.com/live/2015-june-event/eda6e3f7-0fda-4b46...