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French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

lemonde.fr

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Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was a premise considered a very long time ago when it came to the NSA's snooping. People were (still are?) putting keywords in every email, etc. It didn't make any difference, and inherently can't. Here's why. Scenario 1) It works. You get arrested on some arbitrary basis for impeding their system. Or they otherwise make it illegal to do so, and begin cracking down on that. Scenario 2) You throw a vast amount of…

>Scenario 1) It works. You get arrested on some arbitrary basis for impeding their system. Or they otherwise make it illegal to do so, and begin cracking down on that. That will be hard first amendment case in US ... very hard.

Secret courts care little for the constitution.

Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#142
Some key points from the article, translated...

---

  It was in a nearly empty senate that around thirty deupties
  cast their votes [...] on the installation of "black boxes",
  a controversial device designed to monitor internet traffic.
  [It was] approved by 25 deupties to 5 following heated debates.

  The plan: to force ISPs to "detect, through automated
  processing, a suspect succession of connection data" that
  appear to match patterns typically used by terrorists. In 
  practice, this would involve installing a "black box" at ISPs
  to monitor traffic. The content of the communications would
  not be monitored, but only the metadata: the sender or
  receiver of a message, the IP address of a visited site...

  [...]

  "The black box is the Pandora's box of this draft law," said
  socialist Aurélie Filippetti in the senate. "They say that the
  masses of data that will flow through it will only contain
  metadata. But they contain even more information about the
  private lives of our fellow citizens! [...] And there is a
  paradox in saying that these data will be anonymous when they
  are to be used to identify terrorists".

  An accusation that was then defended by the government in the
  house, "The automated processing marks out suspect behaviour,
  not pre-identified persons," emphasized the Defence Minister,
  Jean-Yves Le Drian, "It is after that the services are able to
  access the identity of the persons."

  [...]

  Some deputies also pointed out the "economically damaging"
  consequences of these black boxes, such as the ecologist
  Isabelle Attard, for whom "French IT companies will see their
  foreign clients start to desert them as they lose their trust".
  Last week, seven large French hosts made their opposition to the
  draft clear, stating that it would push them "into exile" so as
  not to lose their clients.

  [...]

  The government nevertheless eluded the more technical questions
  throughout the debate, asked, several times, by a few deputies,
  among those was Laure de la Raudière (UMP), "Where are you going
  to install your probe on the communication networks?", "How will
  you optimize the algorithms?", "Will you use deep packet
  inspection?".

  Bernard Cazeneuve ended up replying to this last question,
  repeated several times by the deputy, "We will not use this
  technique at all", a technique that involves the deep inspection
  [translation of a translation...] of all passing communications
  data.

  Several deputies have also demanded a precise list of the type of
  metadata collected by the black boxes to be clearly defined.
  In vain.
---

Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This law was voted by 30 delegates. From a total of 577 This is how democracy dies. Now the 95% other members of the National Assembly will say "that it's not their fault, because they didn't even vote for it!", if some major abuses happen due to this in the future. Despicable.

> This is how democracy dies. We need a system of government that allows scientists and thinkers to have a weighted power balancing politicians. POliticians cannot be trusted by definition

In the US, many scientists are government vassals. They are not to be trusted, either.

Probably true elsewhere, but I only know the US.

Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#144
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you need direct democracy. With modern communications, there is no reason to organize frequent elections on key issues, like in Switzerland.

Direct democracy only works if most of the voters have: 1) sufficient general education; 2) sufficient domain education; 3) time to read the law; 4) time to reflect on the law; 5) peers to discuss at length and with depth the law; etc. It's more efficient to have delegation systems. The problem is that both politicians and the press are corrupted delegation systems.

Well, you can have delegates that are not actual politicians. Agora Voting [0] (a secure direct democracy platform) allows this kind of political systems... Seriously, there's soft out there that can solve this problem. Thing is nobody gives a shit about these issues and people is brainwashed in such massive scale that horrendous laws are passed w/o proper public scrutiny...

[0] https://agoravoting.com/

https://github.com/agoravoting

Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#145
post #14

La Quadrature du Net has also affirmed that while they were demonstrating in front of the National Assembly, there were two IMSI Catchers. And the law wasn't even passed yet. Great example of what will happen. ( http://www.franceinfo.fr/actu/politique/article/des-appareil... link in french, can provide a translation if needed) Bernard Cazeneuve, our ministre de l'Intérieur (Tasked with internal security, i.e. police…

Why would you recommend TrueCrypt? That's a terrible suggestion.

Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#146
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a silver bullet. With this we'd still have the death penalty; or voted for populists measures like banning minarets.

Ooh, what a delightfully aristocratic objection. We can't give the lesser peoples self-rule, they'd rule themselves wrong!! Have you considered any noblesse oblige -style colonization and rule of third-world nations? Sounds like a good match.

That looks like the author is not saying "they'd rule themselves wrong", they're saying "they'd rule me against my wishes by voting conservative reactionary and ineffective laws into my life"

Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#147
post #59
post #20

It is not a hasard to have this kind of laws in France. France hasn't known dictatorship for long. French representatives don't know what a Stasi-like security state would look like. It would be harder to have such a law in Germany. The low number of delegates during the vote whows how archaic the French politic system is: they are against their own party so they prefer to be missing. There is little discussion. And…

You probably meant "Its not by chance that France get this kind of law". Because "Not a hasard" (hazard) means "not dangerous", making your whole post confusing.

He meant it's not a hazard to the politicians careers to introduce such a law as the public don't really know what it means in reality unlike Germany say who have such direct experience, I think.

Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#148
post #14

La Quadrature du Net has also affirmed that while they were demonstrating in front of the National Assembly, there were two IMSI Catchers. And the law wasn't even passed yet. Great example of what will happen. ( http://www.franceinfo.fr/actu/politique/article/des-appareil... link in french, can provide a translation if needed) Bernard Cazeneuve, our ministre de l'Intérieur (Tasked with internal security, i.e. police…

Why would you recommend TrueCrypt? That's a terrible suggestion.

Thanks for the insightful comment explaining why.

Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#149
post #14

La Quadrature du Net has also affirmed that while they were demonstrating in front of the National Assembly, there were two IMSI Catchers. And the law wasn't even passed yet. Great example of what will happen. ( http://www.franceinfo.fr/actu/politique/article/des-appareil... link in french, can provide a translation if needed) Bernard Cazeneuve, our ministre de l'Intérieur (Tasked with internal security, i.e. police…

Why would you recommend TrueCrypt? That's a terrible suggestion.

Why?

Re: French National Assembly approved Internet traffic monitoring system (French)

#150
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you need direct democracy. With modern communications, there is no reason to organize frequent elections on key issues, like in Switzerland.

Direct democracy only works if most of the voters have: 1) sufficient general education; 2) sufficient domain education; 3) time to read the law; 4) time to reflect on the law; 5) peers to discuss at length and with depth the law; etc. It's more efficient to have delegation systems. The problem is that both politicians and the press are corrupted delegation systems.

I agree. Important decisions shouldn't be left to easily manipulated masses. It shouldn't be left to politicians either. Most of these issues are so complicated that it should be handled by actual experts in that field. I'm always baffled to see politicians take offices/positions throughout their career that couldn't be more different - from agriculture to technology to foreign affairs. Are you telling me they can do it all? And even if so, wouldn't we be better off with actual experts?
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