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HN Cheaters: Catch me if you can

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141–150 of 176 posts

Re: HN Cheaters: Catch me if you can

#141
post #51

Karma to me is my score. How well I'm doing and how respected I am in the community. At the moment I'm (proudly) on 517. If my contributions are valuable. I will get upvotes. If they are not, then I won't. Without gaming the system, I believe this was by design (PG also shared this in a few of his earlier posts). In reality. I'm always sharing links with the community of things I find interesting. My experience is th…

This is a double edged sword, and most probably the thing I like least about HN. It strikes me as elitist and encourages a particular type of groupthink That I am uncomfortable with. As an example, conservative thinking is usually rewarded and less conventional thinking is usually overlooked. In some ways, I find HN to lack diversity in its culture and what it values (which is why I rarely contribute - I definitely put myself in the "on the fringe" category who will remain that way unless some diversity in thinking creeps in, or there's a radical change). This is interesting because I am a big contributor at other sites where I feel diverse thinking is more respected .. I am absolutely happy to accept this is my own bias, however, HN is a unique experience for me in that respect (except Slashdot that I gave up on for similar reasons). Personally, I don't pay any attention to these scores. I prefer less profile visibility, less badges, less karma and more weighting on an article or comment in isolation. If anything, maybe encourage certain knowledge domains, eg. Science or biology. The domains themselves are less important to me at this moment (except where they are political - and I include gender politics in that: it's stifling and off putting to me, despite its current popularity), but it may diversify what I see and view at HN. Ultimately, I don't get a lot of benefit from HN, but there are some (few) exceptional articles that I wouldn't otherwise see - which is why I visit HN. Diverse thinking is very important to me. I am more likely to attribute HN "rigging" to encouraged groupthink than being gamed. Other than categories and less egocentric measurement, I don't have suggestions that would improve things. I apologise if my post offends, I've felt these views since I first came to HN. It's not intended to insult, but it most probably will.

Re: HN Cheaters: Catch me if you can

#142
post #51

Karma to me is my score. How well I'm doing and how respected I am in the community. At the moment I'm (proudly) on 517. If my contributions are valuable. I will get upvotes. If they are not, then I won't. Without gaming the system, I believe this was by design (PG also shared this in a few of his earlier posts). In reality. I'm always sharing links with the community of things I find interesting. My experience is th…

This is a double edged sword, and most probably the thing I like least about HN. It strikes me as elitist and encourages a particular type of groupthink That I am uncomfortable with. As an example, conservative thinking is usually rewarded and less conventional thinking is usually overlooked. In some ways, I find HN to lack diversity in its culture and what it values (which is why I rarely contribute - I definitely p…

Agreed, Reddit chose to take the route of having subreddits or as you said in your comment, Categorys. This absolutely makes sense in my mind as I can then browse the sub-specialisation of most interest to me personally.

Subcategorisation does not need to be user-driven like reddit though and I'd encourage the admins of Hacker News to control that themselves with the type of content posts they would most like to see us post around.

If they are open to suggestion, I'd at least consider categories such as: Startup Advice (like Ask HN), Innovative tech, Show HN (as its own category), VC

Re: HN Cheaters: Catch me if you can

#143

I've done a LOT of analysis into the voting patterns behind Hacker News stories ( http://minimaxir.com/2014/02/hacking-hacker-news/ ) and Hacker News comments ( http://minimaxir.com/2014/10/hn-comments-about-comments/ ). Here are a few thought regarding comments made in the thread. 1) Yes, submissions are manipulated, but due to the flagging mechanic, any bad submission with vote manipulation will be shot down. It's…

Flagging works for stories that are completely unsuitable for HN, but not product announcements that are somewhat relevant but not popular enough to reach the front page on their own.

Re: HN Cheaters: Catch me if you can

#144
Any system that ranks popularity undoubtedly can and will be gamed, it's as simple as that. This is how news outlets end up reporting ridiculous statistics or outrageously skewed public opinion polls. In 2013 it was estimated that between 5.5% and 11.5% of facebook's users were fake accounts, but their likes and votes are real. I'd hazard the guess, based on the shear volume of global propaganda perpetrated lately, that number is substantially larger today.

Re: HN Cheaters: Catch me if you can

#145
This might sound strange...but an imperfect ratings system might actually be a good thing.

I'm already drowning in information overload. HN feeds me several good stories a day. If it got any better I would probably stop reading because it would take too much time and work.

Not to say I like cheaters...but short of adding the equivelant of subreddits...I'm fine with only enjoying a few top page stories a day.

Re: HN Cheaters: Catch me if you can

#146
Posts like these assume that HN needs or wants to display all the good articles submitted on their front page . This is not the case. HN just needs to insure that all the articles on the front page are good, that is to say a representative sample of all the good articles that were submitted.

I lump these types of posts in with those that decry how unfair Google's hiring process it and how they reject highly qualified engineers. Again true, but there goal is not to hire every qualified engineer. There goal is to make sure every engineer that they do hire is highly qualified.

Re: HN Cheaters: Catch me if you can

#147
post #96
post #20

Good that someone raised this topic. 1. Many good articles & posts don't get upvoted. 2. There are pre-formed HN groups who game the system often. My Feedback 1. Some special users can be given special Front-Page-Post Button permission. Say, 3 Top Users have voted this Post for FP(Front Page) 2. Frontpage should not be the highlighting part of HN. At least it looks like that as of now. The other good parts of HN: new…

I've felt for a while that HN would be much improved if vote count and karma were invisible. If you give users a stat, you're encouraging them to gamify and optimize for it. Personally, I would rather there was no karma at all, but that's not going to happen. It serves its purpose by affecting the sort order of the thread - it doesn't need to be visible to do its job. The value of gaming the frontpage could be reduce…

I believe that the incentive to optimize votes/Karma has very little to do with the actual Karma count. I believe it is mostly about driving a narrative or page-views for income.

Focusing on Karma as the outcome is vastly underselling the power of sites like HN (and especially reddit). Those who want to warp the system don't just want numbers on this site. They want power over crowds or money for their business.

Re: HN Cheaters: Catch me if you can

#148

Topics like these crop up from time to time: 279 days ago Sama posted asking people to read newest as a solution[1], and I wrote: --- Sam I think you have great power to give /newest more views if you'd consider minor redesigns. Perhaps you could dither stories so the front-page list goes top/new/top/new/top/new, etc, but that is potentially very messy. Or perhaps instead, the front-page can show 30 top stories, then…

Another possibility is to show just a single random post from new. Considering the difference between loads of the homepage and the new page, even that would likely make a dramatic difference.

Re: HN Cheaters: Catch me if you can

#149
post #96
post #20

Good that someone raised this topic. 1. Many good articles & posts don't get upvoted. 2. There are pre-formed HN groups who game the system often. My Feedback 1. Some special users can be given special Front-Page-Post Button permission. Say, 3 Top Users have voted this Post for FP(Front Page) 2. Frontpage should not be the highlighting part of HN. At least it looks like that as of now. The other good parts of HN: new…

I've felt for a while that HN would be much improved if vote count and karma were invisible. If you give users a stat, you're encouraging them to gamify and optimize for it. Personally, I would rather there was no karma at all, but that's not going to happen. It serves its purpose by affecting the sort order of the thread - it doesn't need to be visible to do its job. The value of gaming the frontpage could be reduce…

Well, if you hide Karma but still use it in the ordering of the thread then Karma could be derivated. In a day you could extract the data from the posts and build a kind of karma-book with top users etc etc...

Re: HN Cheaters: Catch me if you can

#150

I've done a LOT of analysis into the voting patterns behind Hacker News stories ( http://minimaxir.com/2014/02/hacking-hacker-news/ ) and Hacker News comments ( http://minimaxir.com/2014/10/hn-comments-about-comments/ ). Here are a few thought regarding comments made in the thread. 1) Yes, submissions are manipulated, but due to the flagging mechanic, any bad submission with vote manipulation will be shot down. It's…

I wrote up a detailed analysis of the HN ranking algorithm a while back, explaining the time decay of votes, penalized topics and sites, and the controversy penalty: http://www.righto.com/2013/11/how-hacker-news-ranking-really...
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