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I code like a girl

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Re: I code like a girl

#141

Post by throwawayaway »

amyjess wrote: post #112
throwawayaway wrote: post #7

the title is provocative, but the content is better. it's funny how grown women are referred to as girls, yet it's less common that grown men are referred to as boys - in my experience.

I prefer to describe myself as a girl. It's the female version of "guy". "Woman" is stuffy and formal, and it makes me feel old. When I hear the word "woman", I think either Hillary Clinton or somebody's grandma, neither of which I have any desire to be. I only use the word "woman" in formal contexts.

That's fair enough, though people retain the right to describe themselves in a particular way whilst simultaneously being entitled to forbid others to do the same.

Lady and Ladies is another set of words that could be used.

It's interesting that "Woman" is seen as stuffy and formal, whereas "man" is often used like "be a man" or "man up".

You usually have to put an adjective on "man" to give it a negative connotation, in my experience.

Re: I code like a girl

#142

Post by tonyarkles »

mechg wrote: post #109
Dewie wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do they think about math majors? It's similarly "soft" in that it is a study of entirely intangible and abstract concepts - nothing to do with manly machinery or contraptions at all. What do they think about electrical engineers? Circuit board sewers...?

As someone who went to school for ME. The general opinion was: ME was harder than CS. Math majors were unlikely to get a job. Electrical and Chemical engineering were harder than ME (especially chemical) Civil engineering was a joke. (Probably because our statics and mechanics of materials classes were so easy in comparison with ME classes). These aren't my opinions just some observations of general opinions of under…

That definitely matches what seemed to be the prevailing perceptions for me when I was in undergrad. Whether or not they're actually accurate... hard to say, but that's how the people around me generally felt.

Re: I code like a girl

#143

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

dijit wrote: post #22
mrits wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Women often refer to each other as girls. Men don't usually to each other as boys.

interestingly this might be because girls like to retain some semblance of youth. anecdotally my girlfriend (Russian if that makes any difference) absolutely hates when I refer to her as a young woman, or use the word "woman" at all. She much prefers to be referred to as a girl. I have no issues with being called a man.. not saying that this pattern is everywhere but it's very apparent with her and her family.

http://grecian-formula.com/

Re: I code like a girl

#144

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

_bfhp wrote: post #61
throwawayaway wrote: post #7

the title is provocative, but the content is better. it's funny how grown women are referred to as girls, yet it's less common that grown men are referred to as boys - in my experience.

We should note that black men were referred to as "boy" quite a lot until a few decades ago.

Still going on.

Re: I code like a girl

#145

Post by amyjess »

throwawayaway wrote: post #141
amyjess wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer to describe myself as a girl. It's the female version of "guy". "Woman" is stuffy and formal, and it makes me feel old. When I hear the word "woman", I think either Hillary Clinton or somebody's grandma, neither of which I have any desire to be. I only use the word "woman" in formal contexts.

That's fair enough, though people retain the right to describe themselves in a particular way whilst simultaneously being entitled to forbid others to do the same. Lady and Ladies is another set of words that could be used. It's interesting that "Woman" is seen as stuffy and formal, whereas "man" is often used like "be a man" or "man up". You usually have to put an adjective on "man" to give it a negative connotation…

Before my transition (I'm MtF), I never particularly liked "man" either. I called myself a guy and described my male friends as guys.

I still think of guys as "guys" and not "men".

Re: I code like a girl

#146

Post by mreiland »

kazinator wrote: post #50

> What is now considered a male-dominated field, was once defined as “women’s work.” Once? It's naive to think that these attitudes do not persist, albeit in somewhat disguised forms, perhaps. At some universities, for instance, engineers regard CS majors as "wimps". Engineering is hard, CS is soft. Moreover, think about how there is an attitude that some "softer" or "easier" programming is lower on the pecking order…

What the fuck does that have to do with "woman's work"?

I see a description of some fields being considered more difficult than others, I see no description about it being considered women's work. Instead I see you applying your own bullshit bias to it in order to attempt a point that absolutely is not there.

tl;dr; shut the fuck up.

Re: I code like a girl

#147

Post by mreiland »

erroneousfunk wrote: post #113
amyjess wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The vast majority of the recruiter spam I get, as a female, is front end web development or UI/UX work. I'm transgender, and I can tell you that I got that kind of spam both before and after I transitioned. In fact, most recruiter spam I've ever gotten is wholly irrelevant to my skills. You're getting that spam because the positions are in high demand, so there are a lot of them, and recruiters will spam all their…

That's good to know! It's so hard to tell, having only the direct experience of being a single gender in the industry, what is normal and what isn't. I try to stay away from it, but some days, it seems like I'm filtering all my experiences through Medium blog posts about gender inequality and tech-conference-horror-story-of-the-day BS. I might have to go back to front end work if that's really the hot thing everyone'…

Maybe you should stop looking for gender inequality without direct evidence.

Crazy thought I know.

Re: I code like a girl

#148

Post by kazinator »

amyjess wrote: post #136
kazinator wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you cherry pick these examples to some ironic purpose? Sophie Wilson was "born Roger Wilson" (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie_Wilson ). "While struggling with life in a male role, Conway had been married to a woman and had two children." (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_Conway )

Trans women are women.

Of course, I don't disagree with you, but think of it from, say, this angle:

"Hey, class full of young women with university aspirations! Don't be put off from entering science and engineering fields. Look, there are even famous women in tech such as X, Y and Z which are behind some technology that you probably use, like the instruction language understood by the chips in most tablets and cell phones. Oh, they were born men and even had wives and kids, but don't let details like Y chromosomes and functioning penises be a distraction from this forcefully convincing rhetoric which I painstakingly prepared last night in my hotel room, on the backs of these two crumpled restaurant receipts. I'm confident that you can identify with them as human beings with struggles in their lives---just like you!"

My point is that certain kinds of examples can detract from a thesis, by drawing focus to some other thesis or factors that may be perceived as confounding or whatever.

Re: I code like a girl

#149

Post by vdaniuk »

ianstallings wrote: post #127
vdaniuk wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh. I am considering your intentions good, but your statement sounds evil. Most human beings need protection and help. Programming is hard. Learning to program is hard. Leaving happily in these crazy times is hard. Just be empathetic, dont be condescending and bam, your help will be greatly appreciated by men and women. That's what I think one should treat anyone else in this particular regard.

I'm sorry, did you just call me evil because I said you should treat women equally? Get your head checked.

>.. did you just call me evil.. No, I did not.

> Get your head checked. Is this the kind of treatment you were talking about? :D

Re: I code like a girl

#150

Post by throwawayaway »

amyjess wrote: post #145
throwawayaway wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fair enough, though people retain the right to describe themselves in a particular way whilst simultaneously being entitled to forbid others to do the same. Lady and Ladies is another set of words that could be used. It's interesting that "Woman" is seen as stuffy and formal, whereas "man" is often used like "be a man" or "man up". You usually have to put an adjective on "man" to give it a negative connotation…

Before my transition (I'm MtF), I never particularly liked "man" either. I called myself a guy and described my male friends as guys. I still think of guys as "guys" and not "men".

user mrits below also made associations with "woman" and formality. i have never heard any such associations or objections for man, and can't think of a situation where it has negative connotations.
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