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Fired

zachholman.com

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Re: Fired

#141

Post by jghn »

Touche wrote: post #57
detaro wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it a red flag if someone talks about getting fired?

"Getting fired" implies you did something really wrong, which makes you less desirable of a hire. It really depends if we are conflating "getting fired" with "laid off". The latter is not bad. When I hear that someone got fired it usually means they did something like break a big HR rule or caused the company to lose an important account.

Often "laid off" is "fired" (not often as in > 50% of the time, but often as in not-rare). Companies will use "layoffs" as a way to get rid of the dead weight w/ less risk of being sued.

Re: Fired

#142

Post by crpatino »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #80
davidu wrote: post #41

There are people who were at OpenDNS in the early days who were incredible, and as we grew, became less and less incredible, largely because the things that made them incredible actually started to be really frustrating as the company grew and they didn't want to change those things. So they had to leave. Usually it was a series of conversations about how the person, their peers, and the company were all unhappy, and…

> Finally -- For what it's worth, people are fired all the time ( as I have been ) for all kinds of reasons, and so it's not a reason not to hire someone. Professional hiring managers know this. What terrifies me about being fired is: * I have a family to support, and even though we're well off enough to have a 6-12 month cushion, I've seen job markets where it takes longer than that you get hired * The number of unp…

Cut expenses, payoff debt, increase savings... on principle. Then when you see the first early warnings, do the same but twice as hard.

I am well on track to pay the mortage in 4 years instead of the standard 20, have probably 6 months of expenses in the bank, plus another 2-3 months of expenses in a different account because the wife has begin to have funny ideas about what to do with the extra cash. (I have already threaten that I will rather quit before she goes and blows up the war chest in some stupid vacation or something, but still so much for constant vigilance). While I am nowhere near as ready to be let go as of today, I know I will be landing on my two feet if that were to happen.

Re: Fired

#143

Post by acomjean »

logicallee wrote: post #123
temuze wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For reference: https://twitter.com/holman/status/569957689624694784

can you explain? why would someone not take it at face value?

Atlassian runs bitbucket a github (the company that fired him) competitor.

Re: Fired

#145

Post by crusso »

rday wrote: post #101
crusso wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real tragedy is, learning business is not hard. Any programmer can do it. As a person who's switched back and forth between the technical person, the manager, and the business developer - I can tell you that all of the roles in the company take skill to do properly.

I agree. All the roles are hard to master. Why have I, in the past 5 years, learned a tremendous amount about markets, equity, accounting, law, pricing, and I don't even know what else. But the business masters (all of them) I've been working with still can't update a webpage? Just one person's experience, I know. But it's still funny to me.

I'm with you both in the fact that I started from engineering and learned about many other disciplines as I went along. Also, I'd agree that most other disciplines don't bother to learn engineering/programming.

When you're an engineer, the ugly truth is that to increase your salary and opportunities, you normally need to branch out and learn other things like management and sales.

When you're a good salesperson, you can reach great heights financially without worrying about how to update a web page.

Re: Fired

#146

Post by crpatino »

shostack wrote: post #128
jghn wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the one thing I really don't like about the whole fire fast mentality that is starting to pop up, particularly the extreme examples of "fire for any reason as soon as the person isn't a perfect fit, regardless of overall quality". I'm fine with that, but make sure that I know it's likely coming well in advance. Make sure I understand that I'm not pulling my weight. Make sure I understand that the company is m…

Honestly, if the fired employees manager hasn't been giving them feedback that pretty clearly spells out where the current path is heading, that is a major failure of the manager. But some companies aren't great at feedback, particularly young ones where the mechanisms for regular, structured feedback aren't really in place yet. That said, I was laid off once at a company that was not doing well and had to make cuts…

Not that major management failure is ever punished, is it?

Re: Fired

#147

Post by bduerst »

crusso wrote: post #84
MCRed wrote: post #44

Incompetent management is a plague on the industry. And the cause of it is that programmers are relatively low status. In so many businesses, there are "business guys" who end up managing the engineering staff-- at one level or another, but too often it's the direct manager role--and these business guys are incompetent at engineering. When you don't know whether a direct report is doing good or not because you don't…

The real tragedy is, learning business is not hard. Any programmer can do it. As a person who's switched back and forth between the technical person, the manager, and the business developer - I can tell you that all of the roles in the company take skill to do properly.

I think it's also the dunning kruger effect - the "I am a person working in a business, thus I'm an expert, qualified to judge business people".

This also applies to a lot of other disciplines and professions, really.

Re: Fired

#148

Post by vhodges »

vhodges wrote: post #133
toomuchtodo wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree. As a US citizen, I pine for the social safety nets in Canada and Europe. I'm playing the hand I was dealt.

I can't speak to what Europeans have, but as a Canadian I can. It's not all it's cracked up to be. In BC MSP (Medical Services Plan) is $54/Month for an individual and it's mandatory whether you're employed or not. The amount is probably different in other provinces as medical is a provincial concern (and indeed, coverage varies from province to province). Employers usually offer extended medical, covering things lik…

Oh and I forgot, if you're fired with cause, you don't qualify for EI. You only get EI if you're laid off for lack of work.

Re: Fired

#149

Post by joelberman »

jghn wrote: post #141
Touche wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Getting fired" implies you did something really wrong, which makes you less desirable of a hire. It really depends if we are conflating "getting fired" with "laid off". The latter is not bad. When I hear that someone got fired it usually means they did something like break a big HR rule or caused the company to lose an important account.

Often "laid off" is "fired" (not often as in > 50% of the time, but often as in not-rare). Companies will use "layoffs" as a way to get rid of the dead weight w/ less risk of being sued.

You are assuming the company knows who the dead weight is. I have seen more than a few times that someone is laid off, and only after he or she is gone do their managers figure out exactly what they did. Usually to their chagrin that there is no one else who can do it.

Re: Fired

#150

Post by 3am »

ianlevesque wrote: post #122
cylinder wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have mandatory unemployment insurance which pays pretty well. These are well-paid white collar professionals, they should be saving up emergency funds. I'm more worried about the safety net for low- and mid-income workers, as well as the fact that health insurance is tied to your employment.

Yes, the health insurance one is the big issue in the US. Even with emergency funds after the COBRA period ends you simply cannot buy the same health plan individually, no matter what you were willing to pay. Many people are surprised by this.

Yes, and pre-ACA, if were diagnosed with anything during a coverage gap, it would fall into the dreaded "pre-existing condition" category.
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