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Hello, World

hello-world.io

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Re: Hello, World

#141

Post by jakejake »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #109
jofer wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that programming attracts a lot of people that aren't in it for the love of the craft, I disagree with most of your sentiment. I see a creative person who struggles with having to focus on someone else's agenda. Most non-developers see programming as tedious, mind-numbing work that involves zero creativity. Most people who have never worked on a small farm or built a table/shed/house/whatever think of t…

>Both working on a farm and programming are surprisingly creative professions. For all the shit rural culture gets around here, I'm usually impressed by the ingenuity of its homegrown hacker-like culture. I sometimes get frustrated with my overly automated urban life. Apartment/condo living with a low maintenance car/appliances/technology and a worklife where I'm shuttled to and from via public transportation doesn't…

I've bought two fix-er-up houses now. I've always been pretty hands-on with building things. However as patient and diligent as I am building software, I found that I just didn't have the same mentality when it came to fixing my house. Breaking my back while trying to sand drywall seams on the ceiling was just utterly tedious to me and I found myself doing shoddy work. After finishing one room I realized that I just don't have it in me and hired out the rest of the work.

With software I just seem to have patience and enjoy getting every little detail right. So I feel like it's been the right path for me, I've never really felt any urge whatsoever to switch careers.

Re: Hello, World

#142

Post by jerf »

untog wrote: post #134
jerf wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may want to consider "life-hacking" your exercise routine. There's a lot of evidence coming in lately that suggests that an hour is far more time than you need to be spending for health, if you do different things. (I'm not in love with using the term life-hacking, but, alas, it really is the best fit for the concept in question. Still, it need not be done as a fad or because it is "cool" in a certain set... it c…

I know there's more I can do, but that's sort of besides the point. The mere fact that I need to 'hack' my life seems like an indicator that something is wrong.

My point is that there's actually probably less you can do to obtain similar results.

And part of my point was not to let the terminology stop you too much. I don't know a great word for the concept that doesn't have trendiness (the most obvious, mere "self-improvement" or "self-help", has its own baggage!), but the fact it's got a silly word in it doesn't mean it's a bad idea, nor does the fact some people go way overboard with it show it's a bad idea.

Re: Hello, World

#143

Post by nether »

leothekim wrote: post #42

So this guy: - Changed his major overnight from whatever it was to computer science after writing a Hello, World program - Left "so-called higher education" to work at a real-life job "without even thinking about it twice" - Quit real-life job to be a bartender and chef - Quit doing that after getting girlfriend pregnant to 'go back to the "real world" to get a job' - Quit that to build a house and work on a farm Eve…

Reminds me of the people who "chuck it all" and travel the world for a year or two, then return home to find everything the same, as if they had never left.

Re: Hello, World

#144

Post by danneu »

leothekim wrote: post #42

So this guy: - Changed his major overnight from whatever it was to computer science after writing a Hello, World program - Left "so-called higher education" to work at a real-life job "without even thinking about it twice" - Quit real-life job to be a bartender and chef - Quit doing that after getting girlfriend pregnant to 'go back to the "real world" to get a job' - Quit that to build a house and work on a farm Eve…

There was once a boy named Milo who didn't know what to do with himself — not just sometimes, but always.

When he was in school he longed to be out, and when he was out he longed to be in. On the way he thought about coming home, and coming home he thought about going. Wherever he was he wished he were somewhere else, and when he got there he wondered why he'd bothered. Nothing really interested him — least of all the things that should have.

— The Phantom Toolbooth

Re: Hello, World

#145

Post by chaqke »

After years of working as a programmer, I also find something extremely satisfying about doing physical labor.

When someone asks me how close my project is to done, I often say "about half", or "it'll take a few more days". Is it 52% done? 59% done? 43% done? Will I run into some complication tomorrow and realize I'm 23% done?

When I have 25 rebar to pound into the ground, and 10 are already there, I know it's 40% done. I know that in about double that amount of time, it will be near 100% done. There's no question of if I am about to run into a complication that will set me back 20%.

More complicated construction can certainly lead to the same situations as programming, but sometimes simple tasks are really satisfying to a mind always dealing with new things. Variety is the spice of life.

Re: Hello, World

#146

Post by nether »

glenntzke wrote: post #52

How did you get back to the software industry so easily after a long industry break working as a bartender... I would like to read the response to this question. I think there are many software engineers out there who would like to take a break from office and/or coding jobs to work simply – be it bartending, woodworking, volunteering – using their hands and interacting with a diverse community of humans. As someone…

Bartending is often brought up as some accessible, social occupation for taking a break from the office. The truth is for men it's extremely hard to find a bartending job unless you're very good looking and have some desirable personality traits (you get along with everyone, can easily make small talk) honed with years of good social skills. Bartending school helps a little bit, connections help far more. But it's not as easy as becoming a server, it's a position with a fair amount of responsibility and plenty of eager candidates who think it sounds fun.

Re: Hello, World

#147

Post by polynomial »

benologist wrote: post #79
jakejake wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is the result of the relative ease of getting programming work and good salaries. It attracts a lot of people who are not really in it for the love. Some of those people are going to feel like their soul is being sucked out. This guy is one of them which explains his extreme reactions. I personally would rather work at the shittiest programming job than go out and work on a farm. But that's just me.

Programming is the next manual labor and like all the other manual labor that preceded it most people don't need to be deeply passionate about their role in the assembly line. Like current manual labor it will generally not be considered skilled work, even though it is now.

This is a bold if not entirely surprising prediction. Would love to see some citations both supporting and countering.

Re: Hello, World

#148

Post by jnbiche »

trunkation wrote: post #120

Is it possible to pick up programming skills by studying computer science books? In particular I enjoy reading SICP because of its mathematical nature. So far I have been using SICP like a math book without any REPL. Just pen and paper problem solving. But I was told that won't teach you any useful coding skills. Just learning how to code seems to be an unbelievably painful task. Are there any math oriented compsci b…

If you understand the math, give coding a try. I suspect you'll find it easier than you're anticipating it will be.

The REPL is an incredibly user-friendly way to learn to program. Try it. I'm surprised you like math and don't want to use the REPL, since the REPL in many ways resembles a powerful calculator (and can be used as such)

If you really like the math approach, and grow to appreciate the REPL, give "The Haskell Road to Logic, Maths and Programming" by Doets and van Eijck a try.

But no, you can't pick up programming just from reading books without attempting to program. You could pick up a good bit of computer science like that, but not programming. Programming must be experienced.

Re: Hello, World

#149

Post by agentultra »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #109
jofer wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that programming attracts a lot of people that aren't in it for the love of the craft, I disagree with most of your sentiment. I see a creative person who struggles with having to focus on someone else's agenda. Most non-developers see programming as tedious, mind-numbing work that involves zero creativity. Most people who have never worked on a small farm or built a table/shed/house/whatever think of t…

>Both working on a farm and programming are surprisingly creative professions. For all the shit rural culture gets around here, I'm usually impressed by the ingenuity of its homegrown hacker-like culture. I sometimes get frustrated with my overly automated urban life. Apartment/condo living with a low maintenance car/appliances/technology and a worklife where I'm shuttled to and from via public transportation doesn't…

I bought a century-old house and have already learned tiling and simple plumbing jobs with ABS. It has already infected my brain so much that when I need a break I can go to my basement and flip on my wood lathe and make a new pen or something when I get frustrated. Then I can come back and solve my computing problem with a clear mind.

As much as I love programming sometimes it's play that's most important. You need to gather fresh ideas from the world around you. It can be isolating to be stuck in the rut of progress and innovation that is so endemic to our culture. Learning to fix, build, and create things that I depend on is worth investing in; even if it doing so isn't rational.

I could have simply called a contractor to re-tile my floor and they probably would have done it in less time and for less money than it cost me to take the time off work and do it myself. But I learned how to do it on my own. It hurt, it took a long time, I screwed up a bunch. But I walk on that floor everyday and my family loves it. It makes me proud and happy and I think I did a fairly good job. It'll last for decades. The code I wrote last week will probably not even compile in a decade.

Re: Hello, World

#150

Post by chaqke »

chuhnk wrote: post #35

The tech industry for the majority attracts like minded people. We tend to have an all on our nothing mentality. We don't do it on purpose, it's just how we're wired. We work endlessly, hours upon hours, and at some point it starts to take its toll. The mental burn becomes too much, it wears on you. Eventually there is only one option, to walk away, for some time at least. I wish we were able to find balance. I've be…

I agree, the inner (premature) optimizer in us leads us to do all or nothing. It's a bug in our brains.
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