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My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

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Re: My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

#141

Post by makeitsuckless »

When I read these stories, I always wonder how many qualified people would actually subject themselves to such a pathetically long interview process?

I imagine that companies with such processes only get candidates that are extremely compliant and lack self-esteem. Because most people I know would politely tell the employer to go f themselves after the 3rd screening call.

Are these long drawn out, humiliating application processes typically American or does this happen in other countries as well?

Re: My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

#142

Post by sandworm »

I cannot stand the whole "culture fit" gambit. It's a job, not a country club. The idea that some people will "fit in" and others won't and that this can be determined during an interview is naive at best.

What you get are a bunch of new hires who's only qualification over the not-hired is that they put on a good show for the interviewers. I'd say they are the best actors, but that doesn't cover those very good actors who make the mistake of playing the wrong part. Say you are willing to work through weekends to meet deadlines ... oops sorry, you guessed wrong. In this office that attitude is too competitive. We are going with those who guessed "no, weekends are for relaxing" and don't think you would get along with them.

The message this sends to current employees is also evil: if you don't fit in perfectly we don't want you. So everyone shows up to work in costume, wearing a mask, because they fear standing apart. Bring the wrong suit or express the wrong opinion and you might not "fit" anymore. We often hear about a lack of visible diversity in IT. How can we expect to achieve visible diversity if we cannot yet tolerate emotional and cultural diversity? Employees and prospective employees should be judged on on their work product, not on their ability to emotionally camouflage themselves.

Did Office Space teach us nothing?

Re: My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

#144

Post by jeffbush »

copperx wrote: post #64
jeffbush wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find it a little funny as a manager when a prospective individual contributor asks me what a typical day is like for me. For me? I sit in meetings all day, thanks for asking. Would you like to know what a typical day would be like for you? :)

You can wipe that smug smile off your face. The individual is interested in what you, the manager, does in a day-to-day basis.

It's funny because my answer turns out to be kind of boring. I'm not sure why you felt the need to attack me.

Re: My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

#145

Post by saryant »

Gustomaximus wrote: post #100
grecy wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I would love to work at Apple, I honestly don't think I want to work somewhere that isn't happy to see a picture of me holding a beer. If they don't want my whole personality, they can't have my intelligence. I refuse to turn myself into a "corporate robot" for the sake of a paycheck.

To play devils advocate, Linkedin is professional profile site. Personally I would not put a photo of myself holding a drink for this reason and agree or not, its reasonable to expect people wont like this. If someone said the same cause they saw a Facebook picture of you holding a beer then I would be in absolute agreement.

I once worked for a design agency that was building the website of a major super PAC run by the son of a governor that most people on HN probably despise. I was tasked with turning the designer's PSDs into a Wordpress site and one section was bios of all the officers.

My contact at the client gathered up all the photos and bios and emailed them to me. Maybe 25% of the photos were professional headshots. The majority were just crappy cell phone pictures.

The rest were people at parties holding a beer. I emailed my contact to make sure he wanted me to use these and he told me to go ahead. Sure enough, a day after we went live I get a pissed-off call from him demanding to know why I used those photos.

Re: My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

#146

Post by zobzu »

blister wrote: post #38
zobzu wrote: post #3

this is pretty close to the process we have here at And indeed, if you had to go through all this it means they very seriously considered you for the position. Now, the expenses they made mean little (even for a far poorer company) compared to the mistake of recruiting someone that did not fit. There's many reasons why someone would not be selected and sometimes it's just that people didn't "click" really. I know tha…

Why is this the case? As a hiring manager, I often lean heavily towards the "hire them and if they don't work out, let them go" camp. I've gotten a lot of great teammates that way and only one that didn't work out. But the one that didn't work out killed the interview and was ridiculously smart. All the ones that did poorly in the interview and had little experience ended up being some of my better engineers.

theres a lot of reasons, its more expensive to hire, form and fire than not hire for one.

Then, there are relationships with colleagues and between employees regardless of performance, if you fire very rarely then your employees are happier, everyone's happier and performance is better.

Basically, you always take the smartest risk you can, and quite often, that means no hire when you're not too sure.

Re: My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

#147

Post by personjerry »

sandworm wrote: post #142

I cannot stand the whole "culture fit" gambit. It's a job, not a country club. The idea that some people will "fit in" and others won't and that this can be determined during an interview is naive at best. What you get are a bunch of new hires who's only qualification over the not-hired is that they put on a good show for the interviewers. I'd say they are the best actors, but that doesn't cover those very good actor…

> I cannot stand the whole "culture fit" gambit. It's a job, not a country club. The idea that some people will "fit in" and others won't and that this can be determined during an interview is naive at best.

First, regarding the cultural fit: I think it's important that you share a similar mindset with the people who already work there. You'll get along better, and it is more productive. For example, if one person is much more assertive than another, and tends to get their way, we may miss out on the contributions of another. (A lot of very different examples here)

The second part: You're right, they can't give you a full personality quiz, but they're doing their best (oral communication and body language tell a lot more than having you fill in a quiz). They want to look for someone who fits in, so they bring you in and see if you do. What other way is there?

> ... best actors ...

I think if you intend to be an actor for the sake of a job, you're going to have a miserable time. Sure, I suppose this is the case if you value money more than satisfaction at you workplace. Which is where you'll make friends and spend a lot of your life, so I think you shouldn't, but that's subjective, so I concede this point.

> ... not fitting ...

This relates to the previous part in terms of priorities between just "getting the job" and "being happy with your job". As for the idea of not fitting in, I think it's too much of an exaggeration to think that people won't tolerate a few things here and there--but if you're entire view was different or fake to begin with, well maybe you didn't belong after all... you wouldn't be happy there anyway, so it's for the best.

Re: My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

#148

Post by sandworm »

personjerry wrote: post #147
sandworm wrote: post #142

I cannot stand the whole "culture fit" gambit. It's a job, not a country club. The idea that some people will "fit in" and others won't and that this can be determined during an interview is naive at best. What you get are a bunch of new hires who's only qualification over the not-hired is that they put on a good show for the interviewers. I'd say they are the best actors, but that doesn't cover those very good actor…

> I cannot stand the whole "culture fit" gambit. It's a job, not a country club. The idea that some people will "fit in" and others won't and that this can be determined during an interview is naive at best. First, regarding the cultural fit: I think it's important that you share a similar mindset with the people who already work there. You'll get along better, and it is more productive. For example, if one person is…

Having a similar mindset or outlook doesn't mean that people will get along. Getting along is about conflict resolution and tolerance of other people. The best teams are those with various personalities.

Look at the space program. All those astronauts put on a good show. They look like they all play baseball together on weekends. In reality, they are bunch of very assertive and competitive Type-A personalities that, absent the overwhelming desire to fly into space, would rip each other to shreds. They get the job done because it is a job, not highschool.

Re: My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

#149

Post by ProAm »

personjerry wrote: post #147
sandworm wrote: post #142

I cannot stand the whole "culture fit" gambit. It's a job, not a country club. The idea that some people will "fit in" and others won't and that this can be determined during an interview is naive at best. What you get are a bunch of new hires who's only qualification over the not-hired is that they put on a good show for the interviewers. I'd say they are the best actors, but that doesn't cover those very good actor…

> I cannot stand the whole "culture fit" gambit. It's a job, not a country club. The idea that some people will "fit in" and others won't and that this can be determined during an interview is naive at best. First, regarding the cultural fit: I think it's important that you share a similar mindset with the people who already work there. You'll get along better, and it is more productive. For example, if one person is…

|First, regarding the cultural fit: I think it's important that you share a similar mindset with the people who already work there

Id much rather work with an ahole that gets things done than someone I get along with that barely does anything to be honest.

Re: My experience of interviewing for a job at Apple

#150

Post by base698 »

downandout wrote: post #135

Though this isn't as bad as many I've read, stories like this are the reason I have never applied to work at any of these large firms (Google, Apple, etc.). I have been a full-time developer for more than 20 years. I have 4 software patents to my name, one of which formed the basis of a startup that was acquired for $64 million. I know a few people at Facebook and Google (not at Apple), and I am definitely in the sam…

This is a pretty awful reason to not even try. From the outside seems like working at any of those listed would be awesome if not just compensation but ability to grow.

I tend to err on the side of "I suck" when an interview doesn't go my way. Some people err on the side where everyone else is the problem. Different ways to deal with butt hurt.

Disclaimer: I have interviewed at Google and other hard places with mixed results.

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