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Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

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Re: Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

#141

Post by wahsd »

mark-ruwt wrote: post #69
SwellJoe wrote: post #19

I suspect the cost of living data for Austin trails reality by some significant margin. The sources don't indicate the age of the data, but even if it's only a couple of years old, it's going to be wrong by enough to be a factor. I have lived in Austin for a couple of years, and also lived here (and owned a house here) about 8 years ago. The cost of homes here has gone up tremendously since then. I was shopping for a…

This is a common refrain, but one I consider misguided, having lived in Austin since the first .com collapse. While Yes, housing costs have moved up, others have remained flat (so relatively compared to other cities, have moved down). As silly as it sounds, my favorite metric is "Cost of Drinking". Find the fancy cocktail bars in any city's downtown. In Austin, nothing on the menu is above $12 at Midnight Cowboy or T…

I am not sure you are fully connected into the situation anymore. Rents have increased around 40% over 5 years on average and that includes the outlying areas that aren't really even Austin anymore. Home prices are skyrocketing and out of control, e.g., Mueller development is in the $800,000 range for 3/3 on what looks to be about a 1/8 acre lot where you have a car sized back yard and you're paying around 2% property taxes per year. Then there's also the Fitch assessment that Austin home prices are the most overvalued IN THE COUNTRY http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/blog/real-estate/2014/12/a...

There is absolutely not way that the data is accurate, just alone the velocity of the Austin market guarantees that the data is inaccurate.

Re: Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

#142

Post by wahsd »

nilkn wrote: post #120

If more employers understood the value of distributed teams, this wouldn't even need to be an issue. You could live exactly where you wanted to live. Want a 700 sq ft studio in Manhattan for $3k/month? Great. Want a 2000 sq ft ranch home next to a river out in the country with your own garden? Done. Want to just save as much as you can, with a cheap apartment in a cheap town outside a cheap city? You got it. Maybe yo…

Very good points. It has really been baffling me why, especially in an industry like tech, where products for distributed networking and communications are developed, companies are so hell-bent on co-location.

I have my suspicions that it actually has to do with tax code and incentives to have corporate offices in expensive locations, but that's just an untested theory I have at the moment.

Re: Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

#143

Post by e40 »

nilkn wrote: post #120

If more employers understood the value of distributed teams, this wouldn't even need to be an issue. You could live exactly where you wanted to live. Want a 700 sq ft studio in Manhattan for $3k/month? Great. Want a 2000 sq ft ranch home next to a river out in the country with your own garden? Done. Want to just save as much as you can, with a cheap apartment in a cheap town outside a cheap city? You got it. Maybe yo…

Two things: not every place has access to excellent broadband and the legal and accounting issues for a distributed workforce can be significant, depending on where your home office is located. It could, for example, for you to pay taxes in that state and account for any sales the remote employee had a hand in. It's not too complex, but it requires a lot of attention to detail. It drives my HR and accounting department up the wall sometimes, too. We had to pay for the healthcare for an ex-wife of an employee in one state, because that state mandates it. (Yes, MA.) Lots of little things that are hard to run down, and can be surprising once you find out.

Re: Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

#144

Post by a2kadet »

nilkn wrote: post #120

If more employers understood the value of distributed teams, this wouldn't even need to be an issue. You could live exactly where you wanted to live. Want a 700 sq ft studio in Manhattan for $3k/month? Great. Want a 2000 sq ft ranch home next to a river out in the country with your own garden? Done. Want to just save as much as you can, with a cheap apartment in a cheap town outside a cheap city? You got it. Maybe yo…

>If more employers understood the value of distributed teams, this wouldn't even need to be an issue.

I would say I'm pretty against distributed teams at the moment. Would you mind elaborating on the value of them?

Re: Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

#145

Post by fndrplayer13 »

I still feel like Chicago developers miss out on being exposed to the culture of SV or Seattle. I've worked and lived in Chicago all of my professional career, and one of the intangible non-money aspects to this field to consider is how you grow as an engineer. If you love writing software, this isn't a very good place to work compared to SV/Seattle. There just isn't a very large or strong culture of software development here like there is in those cities. Also the tech scene here feels super small and tight knit. If you work for a startup here its hard to interview or talk to people outside your company without somebody knowing somebody from XYZ company who can get the inside digs on you. That's been fine for me in my career, because I think I'm a decent performer, but it makes things awkward when you want to move on.

Re: Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

#146

Post by atwebb »

thorntonbf wrote: post #124

Selfishly, I'm glad to see that Nashville isn't on this list! Though I'd be interested to see how it compares. There seem to be a lot of cities that offer good talent with a great cost of living - sort of cities poised for a breakout. I wonder what kind of critical mass you have to have in other areas - i.e. concentration of tech talent, infrastructure, educational resources, etc... to really be a great tech communit…

I was pretty surprised it wasn't there as well, though the COL has gone up significantly compared to what it was, it's still relatively cheap compared to some of the major hubs. Though judging by the plates around here, people have already figured out the cost difference.

Re: Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

#147

Post by vonseel »

chiph wrote: post #83
SwellJoe wrote: post #19

I suspect the cost of living data for Austin trails reality by some significant margin. The sources don't indicate the age of the data, but even if it's only a couple of years old, it's going to be wrong by enough to be a factor. I have lived in Austin for a couple of years, and also lived here (and owned a house here) about 8 years ago. The cost of homes here has gone up tremendously since then. I was shopping for a…

I have the same problem in Austin. Prices are going up faster than I can save, even accounting for the downpayment leverage. There's no way that I can compete with the all-cash offers that are $10k and $20k above asking price that are being made by investors and people from California and overseas. Knowing that it's a bubble, I think I'm going to have to wait until it pops, and just keep renting until then. Because c…

Yeah, and what developers here are going to have $500k cash to drop on a 3/2 in Crestview.

Re: Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

#148

Post by yourapostasy »

slm_HN wrote: post #139
SwellJoe wrote: post #19

I suspect the cost of living data for Austin trails reality by some significant margin. The sources don't indicate the age of the data, but even if it's only a couple of years old, it's going to be wrong by enough to be a factor. I have lived in Austin for a couple of years, and also lived here (and owned a house here) about 8 years ago. The cost of homes here has gone up tremendously since then. I was shopping for a…

>I was shopping for a house a few months ago, and was simply unable to buy one; those in my price range wouldn't accept my offer because it wasn't an all-cash offer I don't understand this. If you're pre-qualified for a $500,000 dollar loan how is your offer worse than someone willing to pay $495,000 cash?

Deal velocity. An "all cash" offer at 1% less than asking is more attractive to the seller's agent (not necessarily the seller) than a loan-process-backed offer, because the agent wants to close quickly and move onto the next deal. The loan process adds days and weeks to the deal, while the "cash" offer can literally close tomorrow.

I'm scare quoting "cash" because what is really happening most of the time is the cash represents investor pools of already-fronted, already-loaned-out sums; it's only the minority of "all cash" offers that are actually an individual investor writing out unencumbered checks (and even then, that check is still somewhat encumbered by future flip profit expectations). Really what is happening is you are seeing competition between de facto loans already-made and turned into ready cash, and loan promises.

Re: Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

#149

Post by maratd »

Spooky23 wrote: post #98
SwellJoe wrote: post #19

I suspect the cost of living data for Austin trails reality by some significant margin. The sources don't indicate the age of the data, but even if it's only a couple of years old, it's going to be wrong by enough to be a factor. I have lived in Austin for a couple of years, and also lived here (and owned a house here) about 8 years ago. The cost of homes here has gone up tremendously since then. I was shopping for a…

The life hack to actually come out ahead is to avoid these places and find a good opportunity in a cheaper place. I don't know a lot about Austin, but I'm familiar with NYC, and I think that example works too. If you define the "cool" part of NYC as being in Manhattan, once you have a family it's irrelevant, because you can't live there... like 98% of everyone else, you end up in Jersey, the boroughs, or Long Island.…

> Three hours north of NYC, a house costs 60-80% less, and you have the essentially the same access to NYC cool stuff without the hassle of NYC.

You really don't need to go that far. In fact, you shouldn't. You'll hit Lake George and the prices will start to go back up.

An hour or two out and you'll be closer and the houses are just as cheap. You can also go West into NJ and you'll experience the same price drop.

The problem is that you'll be 30 min away driving from a decent grocery store. In fact, you'll be 30 min away driving from pretty much everything.

Re: Cities with High Salary to Cost of Living Ratios for Software Developers

#150

Post by jsonne »

MadManE wrote: post #118
jsonne wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Piling on, I live in Denver and maybe drive once a week tops. Even then, it's usually to get up to the mountains for skiing/hiking. (A huge consideration if you're considering where to live.)

I wouldn't tout Denver's public transit system as an upside of living here. It's just marginally better than the awful road system, so it gets the benefit of looking better by comparison.

Really? I live like half a mile from a light rail station and I'm right next to a bus stop and I'm super happy with our public transportation. In addition my walk score is through the roof. Also our roads are fantastic even if 25 can be a bit of a bear. I think it's all about perspective. I'm from Chicago originally where it was an hour + commute.
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